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Knocking at Idle and Pinging

Tone Everready

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No we are talking about compression, and timing, and physics don't change. Honda also ran over 11:1 in an old Prelude and still ran on 87. High compression engines can easily run 87 if they are tuned for it. The fact the manual says that 87 is fine on our engine means it IS FINE, have a problem? It's a warranty issue, or bad tank of fuel. Not a "it's to high compression, you should run 91+ ignore what Ford says" issue. People used to think you HAD to run premium in the Taurus SHO v6 with its "high" 9.8:1 compression. Yet people still ran 87 and even 85 on that just fine. Why? Because it had properly done timing curves. It didn't even have Knock Sensors to keep it alive.

This isn't the 60's or even 80's or 90's and we have smart ECU's now.
Sensors malfunction and fail. Keep on being a miser, though. You're the type of guy who runs Motorcraft synthetic blend oil for the full duration of the computer indicated OCI just because it's "ok" to do so. I feel sorry for the people who buy your cars second hand.
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Sensors malfunction and fail. Keep on being a miser, though. You're the type of guy who runs Motorcraft synthetic blend oil for the full duration of the computer indicated OCI just because it's "ok" to do so. I feel sorry for the people who buy your cars second hand.
Actually I'm the type of guy that puts full bolt-ons and cams in a Ford Escort then tunes the ECU himself with a SCT Pro Race package, had a full bolt-on Lund tuned Mach1 within 6 months of owning it, and never lets a "blend" touch his car after original OCI, but go ahead in your horribly inaccurate assumptions. Probably why you have NO idea how compression, fuel and timing relate.
 

Tone Everready

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Actually I'm the type of guy that puts full bolt-ons and cams in a Ford Escort then tunes the ECU himself with a SCT Pro Race package, had a full bolt-on Lund tuned Mach1 within 6 months of owning it, and never lets a "blend" touch his car after original OCI, but go ahead in your horribly inaccurate assumptions. Probably why you have NO idea how compression, fuel and timing relate.
Actually,

You. Are. The. Moron. Condoning. Running. 87. Octane. IN. THESE. CARS.

Please, tell me WHY anybody would choose a fuel that would cause an ECU to pull timing? Buy a goddamned Camry if a few extra cents per gallon are going to break the bank!
 

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Actually,

You. Are. The. Moron. Condoning. Running. 87. Octane. IN. THESE. CARS.

Please, tell me WHY anybody would choose a fuel that would cause an ECU to pull timing? Buy a goddamned Camry if a few extra cents per gallon are going to break the bank!
Ahhh see its not just pulling timing, it also able to ADD timing. Please go read up on modern engines and then we'll have this discussion.

Ford designs and "condones" the car to work on 87. Ford Warranties it to work on 87. Therefor it should be expected to run on 87. Who cares WHY he wants to run 87? It's in his right and supported by the maker. Your opinion matters not.
 

Tone Everready

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Ahhh see its not just pulling timing, it also able to ADD timing. Please go read up on modern engines and then we'll have this discussion.

Ford designs and "condones" the car to work on 87. Ford Warranties it to work on 87. Therefor it should be expected to run on 87. Who cares WHY he wants to run 87? It's in his right and supported by the maker. Your opinion matters not.
IT IS NOT PERFORMING AT PEAK ON 87 OCTANE AT SEA LEVEL, OR EVEN AT ALTITUDE FOR THAT MATTER. What is wrong with you?! Go read up on modern engines?! You have no idea who you're interacting with...
 

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Schwerin

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IT IS NOT PERFORMING AT PEAK ON 87 OCTANE AT SEA LEVEL, OR EVEN AT ALTITUDE FOR THAT MATTER. What is wrong with you?! Go read up on modern engines?! You have no idea who you're interacting with...
Clearly someone that doesn't understand how engines work. He doesn't need it to work "at peak" he's just driving down the highway barely over idle. He's not flooring it around like a 18yo kid. So he wants to drive to Florida, and lives in Maine. Using 87 vs 93 down and back will save him about $40, that's basically a free tank of gas. Why should he NOT do that if he wants to. Hes not dyno-ing the car, or drag racing it, hes rolling at 1200RPM on the highway. Do you not understand "use case"?
 

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IT IS NOT PERFORMING AT PEAK ON 87 OCTANE AT SEA LEVEL, OR EVEN AT ALTITUDE FOR THAT MATTER. What is wrong with you?! Go read up on modern engines?! You have no idea who you're interacting with...
For 2015-17, AAA tested regular vs premium.
https://newsroom.aaa.com/wp-content...ium-Fuel-Phase-II-Research-Report-FINAL-2.pdf

2.3% gains in MPG and 3.2% in HP for the Mustang. That's ~14hp. No, the engine isn't gonna lose only 14hp if it's pinging and knocking. It'd be closer to 50-60whp. The fact that OPs car is pinging at idle is a sign of a much bigger issue.

For the record, no I never put anything under 93 octane in any of my cars or motorcycles. However, the gains and benefits aren't really jaw dropping on stock vehicles.

Also, guess what? They tune these cars for 87 octane from the factory. So please stop being ignorant and making weird threats.
 

Tone Everready

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Clearly someone that doesn't understand how engines work. He doesn't need it to work "at peak" he's just driving down the highway barely over idle. He's not flooring it around like a 18yo kid. So he wants to drive to Florida, and lives in Maine. Using 87 vs 93 down and back will save him about $40, that's basically a free tank of gas. Why should he NOT do that if he wants to. Hes not dyno-ing the car, or drag racing it, hes rolling at 1200RPM on the highway. Do you not understand "use case"?
Oh yeah, totally. I have no idea how they work. I'm so glad people like YOU are around to educate ME. :cwl:

Who is talking about use case? I'm stating that they're not running at peak on 87 octane. I'm not even addressing the OP. You're the one going off on this tangent.
 

Tone Everready

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For 2015-17, AAA tested regular vs premium.
https://newsroom.aaa.com/wp-content...ium-Fuel-Phase-II-Research-Report-FINAL-2.pdf

2.3% gains in MPG and 3.2% in HP for the Mustang. That's ~14hp. No, the engine isn't gonna lose only 14hp if it's pinging and knocking. It'd be closer to 50-60whp. The fact that OPs car is pinging at idle is a sign of a much bigger issue.

For the record, no I never put anything under 93 octane in any of my cars or motorcycles. However, the gains and benefits aren't really jaw dropping on stock vehicles.

Also, guess what? They tune these cars for 87 octane from the factory. So please stop being ignorant and making weird threats.
Like I said, not peak.

IF the op is accurately describing "pinging", why in the hell wouldn't he at least attempt to up the octane as a test? I agree, though, sounds like a bigger issue.
 

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Like I said, not peak.

IF the op is accurately describing "pinging", why in the hell wouldn't he at least attempt to up the octane as a test? I agree, though, sounds like a bigger issue.
Look, if the sensors are defective to the point that it's pinging at idle with 87 octane, that's enough to go have it fixed at the dealer. If it's adding so much timing that it pings at 87 octane, the sensors or variable timing is clearly messed up. He doesn't need to put 93 in it to see if it still pings because it shouldn't be pinging in the first place. What's next, race gas? Or you want him to run a tank of e85 through it?

For whatever reason, he chooses to run 87 octane and per manual, it's fine. Many people have done the same and I didn't find a single thread where they report pinging. His car has something wrong with it, end of story.
 

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Tone Everready

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Look, if the sensors are defective to the point that it's pinging at idle with 87 octane, that's enough to go have it fixed at the dealer. If it's adding so much timing that it pings at 87 octane, the sensors or variable timing is clearly messed up. He doesn't need to put 93 in it to see if it still pings because it shouldn't be pinging in the first place. What's next, race gas? Or you want him to run a tank of e85 through it?

For whatever reason, he chooses to run 87 octane and per manual, it's fine. Many people have done the same and I didn't find a single thread where they report pinging. His car has something wrong with it, end of story.
I would have suggested he attempted it just to make sure what he was hearing was pre-ignition, or something else. A boost in octane would have changed it, confirming his diagnosis. Then off to the dealer. Is that so hard to understand?
 

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I would have suggested he attempted it just to make sure what he was hearing was pre-ignition, or something else. A boost in octane would have changed it, confirming his diagnosis. Then off to the dealer. Is that so hard to understand?
What makes you think it wouldn't ping on 93?
 

Tone Everready

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What makes you think it wouldn't ping on 93?
If it were fuel related, it would MOST LIKELY lessen on 93 vs 87. I believe you should troubleshoot to the best of your ability before you pass the car off.
 

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If it were fuel related, it would MOST LIKELY lessen on 93 vs 87. I believe you should troubleshoot to the best of your ability before you pass the car off.
it'd take at least one full tank of gas before 93 even got into the system. Who has time for that? He has a warranty for these sorts of issues. Why should he spend time diagnosing the issue when it's the dealers's job to do that? This isn't some small issue. The engine is at risk if it's pinging at idle.
 

Tone Everready

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it'd take at least one full tank of gas before 93 even got into the system. Who has time for that? He has a warranty for these sorts of issues. Why should he spend time diagnosing the issue when it's the dealers's job to do that? This isn't some small issue. The engine is at risk if it's pinging at idle.
It wouldn't take very long depending on how full of 87 he is. Everyone should have time for that. HE should troubleshoot to the best of his ability in order to guide the dealership. He hears a "little bit of pinging" at low load in first gear. It's not like he's full on can of nickles mode. Troubleshoot troubleshoot troubleshoot.
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