Gone in 20 Seconds

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by GR11M, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. hinch

    hinch Well-Known Member

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    the RFID in the fob cannot be extended as you think it is. all those "extender" boxes are, are extra sensitive receives that can pick up on signals too weak to reach the car normally because the car receiver is wrapped in metal and typically lowest cost. Think of it as having a portable radio (are you old enough to remember these? : ) ) without an aerial vs with an aerial then they boost/relay it by just mirrioring it via a local transmitter so the car can pick up on it. Thats why you should move it 5 foot from the outside of the premise as that should be well beyond the range of most of these receivers

    put the keys in your bed room and quit worrying
     
  2. Kristian87

    Kristian87 Super Moderator
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    Hmmm. Just had a long text convo with young Manders on the subject...I don't think I fully understood the technology...anyway, £7 spent, I'll use them - just for my own peace of mind.

    P.s. portable radios...just about!
     
  3. Monty

    Monty Well-Known Member

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    Not necessarily the best idea either. Is it better that the theives grab the keys from just inside your door, or go tooled up seaching through your house endagering your family for the keys.
     
  4. GW65

    GW65 Member

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    Caveat: what I'm about to say is based on the assumption that the system in the Mustang works in a similar way to the system in my Corvette...

    I've just tried standing inside my house, 20 feet away from the window, with my car another 20-25 feet away on top of that (so 40-45 feet in total). When I double-tap the lock button I get the horn sounding to confirm it's locked. If I were to leave the fob inside the house, walk to the car, and try to open the door relying on passive entry, it wouldn't work....not because the fob is too far away, but because there are multiple receivers in the car that know the receiver isn't near the door I'm trying to open - it's a triangulation feature to stop people jumping into your car and stealing it while you walk away!

    However, if I had a repeater with me, it would be in the right place for the car's receivers and would be able to talk to my fob...so logically I should be able to open the car door. So I don't see why having the fob 5 feet (or 20 feet) inside my house will stop it being stolen...

    Obviously I can't test this theory without a repeater, but I've just got to ask myself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" :)
     
  5. Manders Mustang

    Manders Mustang The Boss

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    you're correct, basically there's 2 devices when they steal them, one needs to be within the range of the key and act as if it was the car, then amplifies the signal and bounces it onto another device, the other device works on the parameter sensors and therefore tricks the car to thinking the key is near to it, allowing you to open and close the car as usual, even if they did open your car from 100ft away with the amplifing "hack/tool/gizmo" the car still wouldn't start, put your key a foot away from the car after u get in and try and turn it on, doesn't work.

    Also, when pressing lock/unlock it amplifies the range from the key, it's almost 100m in range or so with this, however this ONLY ACTIVATES WHEN YOU PRESS LOCK/UNLOCK. Otherwise it's about 5-10ft of contactless range.
     
  6. W111BOB

    W111BOB Well-Known Member

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    As there are some very knowledgeable people on here - could someone pickup the code of the key (for future theft use) as per my previous description - i.e. when removed from the pouch - or when the unlock button is pressed on the fob ?
     
  7. 99Zeus99

    99Zeus99 Well-Known Member

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    Sucks to hear. I'm low risk. I don't live in a shithole. I don't go to areas of "rich and vibrant" culture with my car. I have a 6 speed millenial anti theft device. I usually sit where I can see my car from inside a restaurant etc. I don't go out at the hours between 11pm-4am when all the shitbags without jobs are out and about. You can't fix all the potential situations but you can cut down the percentage. YMMV
     
  8. hinch

    hinch Well-Known Member

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    because at that range the passive rfid signal will be so weak that even a really sensitive receiver wouldn't be able to pick it up from the background noise. Its a simple factor of signal strength vs distance.
     
  9. hinch

    hinch Well-Known Member

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    button pressing is a completely different function to the keyless system so button pressing is irrelevant (but yes it can also be intercepted this is how they used to do it in older times before keyless systems became the norm)

    To answer the other part then yes it can be scanned the second it leaves the pouch and takes about a second to scan/read however from what I can see the keyless systems don't capture and save simply read / relay so they can't capture it to use it in future. The button press can be captured and saved to use later though.
     
  10. GW65

    GW65 Member

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    Ah, OK - didn't realise the fobs have passive RFID. (I made the dodgy assumption that it's active because there's a battery in there!)
     
  11. OP
    OP
    GR11M

    GR11M Well-Known Member

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    Mine are kept in my bedroom in a pouch. The other keys are kept near the door, so they can steal those instead lol
     
  12. SteveS

    SteveS ...Bon Scott Land...

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    But can it though? Do they not use rolling (ie changing) codes?
     
  13. Biffboff

    Biffboff Member

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    I have been thinking about this and was looking for to buy one of these pouch's and keeping my spare key in a biscuit tin.

    But.... on Saturday I was getting my dash cam removed from car and speaking to the installer (remover!!) and he was pushing this new immobiliser from "https://www.ghostimmobiliser.co.uk/" I've not looked that far into this but the short version is that it still allows a copied signal to open the car but it will not start, that is until your press a pre-set number of dashboard buttons in a particular sequence, maybe worth a look but at £400+ a bit pricey and my insurance company has never heard of it so no discount at that end either.

    I remember back in the day having a £2 switch hidden somewhere that just killed/immobilised the ignition circuit roughly in the same way, I mentioned this and the sales pitch reply was that the Ghost system works using the can bus system and very modern and reliable blah blah, I'm still thinking about the £2 quid option, but then again I am from Jockistan
     
  14. OP
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    GR11M

    GR11M Well-Known Member

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    The code should be encrypted so it can't be read :facepalm:
     
  15. hinch

    hinch Well-Known Member

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    the encryption used by auto systems is laughable one recent system was caught using the old RC4 style (which is crackable on a phone in a few seconds these days)
    the tech used in general in cars is so far behind because the manufacturers unfortunately rely in the "well its not connected to the internet therefore its safe" approach. this is clearly wrong but its what we have to live with :(
     
  16. MrWolf

    MrWolf Well-Known Member

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    You can disable the keyless entry feature on MY18+ cars.
    This doesn’t mean it can’t be stolen, it just means they’ll have to do it the old fashioned way.
     
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  17. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member

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    Really? How do you do it? Is there a video or guide somewhere? I looked online, in the owners manual and asked around here before and didn't have any luck.
    If true it would mean not having to use a Faraday pouch.
     
  18. Nomadic

    Nomadic King of Europe

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    If you're going to buy a Mustang/nice car and not have/park it in a garage, shouldn't buy one.
     
  19. hinch

    hinch Well-Known Member

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    i have nicer cars in the garage that take priority
     
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  20. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Whoever thought keyless entry was a good idea? This is definitely a case of unnecessary gimmicky tech.
     
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