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XeninWorX

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Not sure. In the last 15 years or so I've driven an automatic car about once. I'm not kidding.


Norm
my wife’s car is a CVT and I park it in the driveway often so I get thrown off when I get into it. Find myself pressing down on the footrest thinking it’s the clutch lol.
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Norm Peterson

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On the "driver involvement" thing . . . automatic transmissions may be on the way to distancing their drivers still further by connecting the transmission control to technologies like GPS, 3-D cameras, and radar.

Hyundai/Kia have already developed such a system to some level, which would take over shifting and transmission mode selection at least under some situations. The article in the September 2020 issue of ShopOwner magazine (an independent repair shop periodical) didn't note whether these additional electronic capabilities could be overridden by the driver or not. But it did note that the transmissions did less shifting under some conditions when those technologies were involved.


Norm
 

Dfeeds

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Depending on what you want from a transmission, there are better gearsets than what's in either of the MT82's.


Norm

This is true but that wasn't really what I was getting at. My point was that, if the manual retained the shorter gearing of the previous generation, then the reported 1/4 time difference from the magazines would have been a bit closer. It's not to say the a10 isn't great for a straight line rip, but to say that an auto is so "superior" to a manual when the manual only has 3 underdrive gears is a bit disingenuous. So is buying an auto just to be half a second faster at the drag strip said buyer will never visit, but I digress.
 

TeeLew

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Manual guy, checking in.
 

2018OFPP1?2

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For what it's worth back when I was doing my driving test it was a fail to coast in neutral or slow down to a stop with the clutch in. You had to be in gear with clutch engaged, changing down gears as appropriate until you were almost at a stop then you clutched in, in 1st, and came to a complete stop.

The only time it was acceptable to brake from speed with the clutch in was during an emergency stop where you could hit both pedals instantly and even if you didn't and left the clutch in and stalled the car, that was ok as long as you completed your emergency stop. Stalling wasn't recommended, but you did not get dinked for it in the emergency stop.

I watch so many youtubers put the car in neutral and brake to a stop from say 30mph and think, fail. you failed your test :)
Hundreds of thousands of downshifting miles on bikes and cars here with nary a worn gear, dog, fork, or clutch in the bunch. Have seen 80k miles on brake pads, and 100k+ miles on a clutch. Come to a stop in neutral if you must, but all you're doing is wearing out your brakes faster than you need to.
 

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Norm Peterson

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^^^ Brakes - pads, rotors, and fluid, at least - are "wear items". You're supposed to wear them out without worrying about whether you'll be replacing them sooner rather than later. There's no prize to be won, or better resale value to be had, for getting 80,000 miles from a set of pads instead of only 40,000.

Maybe the pads on a PP2 really are that much better than what OE pads have been in the past, but over the last 25 years or so I haven't wanted any of my cars to still be on OE pads at 20,000.


Norm
 

jwt

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My comment was more about proper control of the vehicle rather than any concern of accelerated wear of pads etc.


https://www.castletownsom.com/how-to-avoid-coasting/#:~:text=Keeping the clutch depressed while,fail for not driving safely.

Just to pick the first search results in why this is a fail although I have heard from UK testers that this is no longer as much of a big deal anymore, like I said, when I was doing my test it was a fail.

I treat using the gears and gearing down as I slow down the same way I treat braking by 3rds*, Mirror signal maneuver etc etc, do you have to? No. Should you ? Probably. Is it the sign a "good" driver, for me yes.

YMMV

*

  • Rest most of the weight of the foot on the floor while pivoting it forward to apply light pressure to the brake pedal.
  • Gradually increase pressure until the car is nearly to a complete stop.
  • Ease off the brake pedal slightly before coming to a complete stop to keep the vehicle from bouncing back too hard.
 
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Elp_jc

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it was a fail to coast in neutral or slow down to a stop with the clutch in.
Yep. You should always be in the APPROPRIATE gear when rolling. Clutch should only be used to start or change gears. Left foot should never be touching the clutch pedal (on dead pedal instead), except when starting or making a shift. And hand should only be on the shifter to make a shift. Those 4 things are the fundamentals of driving a manual car.
 

2018OFPP1?2

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^^^ Brakes - pads, rotors, and fluid, at least - are "wear items". You're supposed to wear them out without worrying about whether you'll be replacing them sooner rather than later. There's no prize to be won, or better resale value to be had, for getting 80,000 miles from a set of pads instead of only 40,000.

Maybe the pads on a PP2 really are that much better than what OE pads have been in the past, but over the last 25 years or so I haven't wanted any of my cars to still be on OE pads at 20,000.


Norm
Lol. It wasn't a planned outcome, just a byproduct of using the transmission as intended. BTW, I'm talking about average DD cars here, not the PP2, although I expect the PP2 will deliver equivalent results. And yes, the PP pads are far superior with regard to stopping force and fade resistance to any stock brakes pads I've ever had before. Longevity? Since they are biased toward performance over life I assume they won't last as long.

Are you arguing that regular downshifting is likely to cause a manual transmission to fail before other major drivetrain components? Proof or experience contrary to mine?
 

blt-4739

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Learnt in the UK and agree it was a fail if you didn't shift down as necessary and come to a halt in 1st. Moved to Australia in 99, had to do test again to get Ozzie licence, did a lesson to revise procedures, was amazed the instructor was recommending I just keep the clutch in and coast to a halt. Then again he also questioned why I wanted to do the test in a manual at all - surely I only really needed to drive auto? Needless to say I ignored him on both counts.
 
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Norm Peterson

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Are you arguing that regular downshifting is likely to cause a manual transmission to fail before other major drivetrain components? Proof or experience contrary to mine?
No. What I'm arguing against is sparing the brakes. I get that with a MT you can rely on engine compression braking for many of the really gentle decelerations, and that much is fine. But to insert one or more downshifts just so you have more compression braking available, no.


I do a lot of downshifting, but it's all for reasons like keeping the engine revs far enough away from lugging and as preparation for cornering by being in a lower gear than absolutely necessary for better part-throttle acceleration coming out of it.


Norm
 

Elp_jc

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You buy a manual for the fun. Going up and down each shift is not going to ruin anything in any measurable way if you know how to drive a manual, period. Those who want to drive a manual like a grandma, or like an appliance, that's fine with me... but I'm not one of them :). By the way, I don't exceed 3.5K rpm most of the time when driving in the city, but still enjoy the heck out of driving the Bullitt. And yes, perfectly executed throttle-blip downshifts in sport exhaust mode are probably the most fun part :rockon: .
 

2018OFPP1?2

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No. What I'm arguing against is sparing the brakes. I get that with a MT you can rely on engine compression braking for many of the really gentle decelerations, and that much is fine. But to insert one or more downshifts just so you have more compression braking available, no.


I do a lot of downshifting, but it's all for reasons like keeping the engine revs far enough away from lugging and as preparation for cornering by being in a lower gear than absolutely necessary for better part-throttle acceleration coming out of it.


Norm
Which it's pretty much exactly what I do, although I usually hit every gear except first when coming to a stop. It was required when I took my driving test, and reinforced in motorcycle training (as a defensive technique).

I'm in no way advocating sparing the brakes, simply making an observation that refutes a commonly held misconception about damage to manual transmissions and actually suggests some benefit, albeit arguably trivial to your point, in downshifting.
 

WildHorse

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Aaron1085

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So what is the weak point on a 2018 version 6spd manual; the forks?

I purchased the car with a slew of modifications (Whipple stage 2) and supporting mods (twin disc x-clutch, suspension, etc) and an in this thread for a reason. Anything particular to be aware of?
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