Did anyone ever do a Perf Pack 2 vs 1LE test?

[Nabush]

Visibility is more than just adjusting your mirrors. You own a 1LE and you will now need to justify your purchase. Every single major review publication notes the camaro's horrendous visibility. It's an issue beyond adjust mirrors for many people.

So you know, before I had my 2018 Mustang, I had a 2017 Camaro 2.0T for 10 month. I had small issues with the 3/4 rear visibility. But with this one, perhaps because of the Recaro seats, my driving position is perhaps different and I have absolutely no issues with visibility. I see really well in my mirrors and when I glance before switching lane I don't have any issues seing the cars on my left.

This is a completely honest statement...

To justify my purchase would have been to say that the 1LE DESTROYS the Mustang as far as driving experience (and performance)

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[Nabush]

YOU LIE!!! What is wrong with you? There is absolutely no way you can see out of that gun turret. And what is this mirror position thing you Camaro owners keep crowing about? I've been setting my mirrors the same way (the RIGHT way) since I was 7 and I've never had an accident. And what about seeing out the back? Oh, right....camera. Hate to have to rely on a camera to know what's behind me.

***NOTE: The above is about as much sarcasm as I can muster on a Sunday morning I own a 2017 Camaro. Just because Bob "can't see out of it" doesn't mean that John can't either. I'm not gonna tell anybody that they will feel comfortable in the driver seat of a Camaro, but I also expect that they shouldn't be trying to tell me what I can or cannot see out of mine. On a parallel point, I find the driving position of most Mustangs I've driven recently to be too tall. From a driving feel perspective, not from a visual perspective. From time to time I hear the term "I feel like I'm sitting on the car, not in the car" tossed around by a number of reviewers. I would never go so far as to tell people, "stay away from the Mustang...the seating position sucks if you're trying to do any serious corner carving". I wouldn't go that far because even though reviewers say that AND I have experienced it myself, I know that other people will experience that differently, so let 'em.

The one thing which annoyed me a lot on the Mustang was the driving position. You sit ON the car in a Mustang, compared to IN the car with the Camaro/Corvette
I would even say that with the seat as low as possible in the Mustang I still felt I was sitting on a stool...

 

[martinjlm]

The one thing which annoyed me a lot on the Mustang was the driving position. You sit ON the car in a Mustang, compared to IN the car with the Camaro/Corvette
I would even say that with the seat as low as possible in the Mustang I still felt I was sitting on a stool...

The bold part is probably where my seating bias comes from. I've owned 4 Mustangs in the past. When I transitioned from my 5.0 1979 Indy Pace Car to my first Corvette (1987 C4), I felt like I had transitioned from swimming in baja shorts to swimming in Speedo. Since then, for me the definition of "spirited driving" has been the ability to strap in and slam curves and corners while fitting like a glove in a low, locked in position with minimal upper body drift. And I fully understand that everyone doesn't share my seating preferences.

 

[JohnnyUtah]

So the PP2 isn't a track focused car. What exactly is the point of it then?

If it is pointless for someone to buy a 1LE for the street only, then it seems the PP2 is pointless all together, as it is overkill for the street and not meant for the track.

 

[thehunterooo]

So the PP2 isn't a track focused car. What exactly is the point of it then?

If it is pointless for someone to buy a 1LE for the street only, then it seems the PP2 is pointless all together, as it is overkill for the street and not meant for the track.

It is a cash grab by Ford to scam suckers. Should boost that ATP though

 

[tacamo]

The way I see it, a track focused car is one that you look at how well it is running after 30 laps not after 1 or 2 laps. The PP2 is fast, but without the coolers it simply can't sustain the extended pace. That's why it is not a track focused car. The fact that Ford puts those disposable Cup tires on the PP2 is clearly to make/keep the wanna-bes happy. Someone needs to step up with a tire like AS3+ that would fit the PP2 rims and then you would have a delightful, streetable, high performance fun car. Never driven or seriously considered a new 1LE so, unlike a lot of folks here I can't comment on it. My .02 worth.

 

[Mountain376]

wtf..?

Nobody here is talking about you, or your choices. We are discussing the merits of the Mustang GT PP2 -vs- the merits of a Camaro 1LE. You seem to be one of those people, unable to separate your personal situation & car, from the debate. And instead assume this is discussion is about YOUR car, instead of the Camaro.

BTW, the difference between the PP1 and PP2 is $810...



And yes, the Camaro SS 1LE is no where near as suited for daily driving as is the Mustang GT PP1 or PP2.

Every review of the Camaro will mention the horrible visibility of that platform, making it a horrible choice in most everybody's opinion, save the few who got deal on the Camaro and bought one. That is why the sales are down, because the car is too hard to see out of.

Track worthiness is the ONLY argument Camaro owner's have... I only explained how that logic is short lived, due to aftermarket..

Let's step back to a few of your comments to me:
"I am trying to gauge what you gain from YOUR CHOICE, over the Mustang GT. Track cars are great and trackers rarely look out the back window or have your head on a swivel, as you would in public, etc. So I understand the 1LE for TRACK USE ONLY.

But for a daily driver, the Camaro is fail.


So much so, that buying a Mustang GT and adding your own cooling is a much better option for those who live on the track, but want an all-around better car for daily driving and cross-country touring/driving/trips, etc."

So, you are telling me, your comments, especially when you type in bold, "YOUR CHOICE," is not ones that are directly inquiring towards my own personal choice?

About the pricing, yes, sorry, I had the "$6,500" stuck in my head. I meant that the difference between the PP1 and PP2 is really just some tuning and wheels. I.E. if you are going for the PP2, you most likely 1. just like the wheels or 2. want the better ABS and dynamic tuning because you are going to track the car and do a bunch of upgrades. All the other stuff is a wash. If you want to start throwing in a Camaro comparison, now, than consider this: The Camaro equivalent to the PP2 is a SS (MRC or not) with 1LE sized wheels and better tires (let's go with Cup 2's to keep things similar). That's all you need. The 1LE is not the competitor to the PP2.

Camaro is not as bad as you guys over here tend to call it. Is the Mustang a better car as a daily driver? Yes. Is the Camaro not driveable (according to Mustang die-hards it is)? Absolutely not true.

 

[thehunterooo]

Let's step back to a few of your comments to me:
"I am trying to gauge what you gain from YOUR CHOICE, over the Mustang GT. Track cars are great and trackers rarely look out the back window or have your head on a swivel, as you would in public, etc. So I understand the 1LE for TRACK USE ONLY.

But for a daily driver, the Camaro is fail.


So much so, that buying a Mustang GT and adding your own cooling is a much better option for those who live on the track, but want an all-around better car for daily driving and cross-country touring/driving/trips, etc."

So, you are telling me, your comments, especially when you type in bold, "YOUR CHOICE," is not ones that are directly inquiring towards my own personal choice?

About the pricing, yes, sorry, I had the "$6,500" stuck in my head. I meant that the difference between the PP1 and PP2 is really just some tuning and wheels. I.E. if you are going for the PP2, you most likely 1. just like the wheels or 2. want the better ABS and dynamic tuning because you are going to track the car and do a bunch of upgrades. All the other stuff is a wash. If you want to start throwing in a Camaro comparison, now, than consider this: The Camaro equivalent to the PP2 is a SS (MRC or not) with 1LE sized wheels and better tires (let's go with Cup 2's to keep things similar). That's all you need. The 1LE is not the competitor to the PP2.

Camaro is not as bad as you guys over here tend to call it. Is the Mustang a better car as a daily driver? Yes. Is the Camaro not driveable (according to Mustang die-hards it is)? Absolutely not true.

Don't lump everyone together for the retarded visibility comments.

 

[Mountain376]

Don't lump everyone together for the retarded visibility comments.

Absolutely not intending to do that. Just those that refuse to see Mustang as not the perfect sports car/performance car. Probably could word my term better.

 

[w3rkn]

Nobody said the Mustang is perfect, just a better daily & cross country driver/grand touring..!

YOUR choice was a TRACK car, as clarified by yourself and why I had asked YOU, so others (including yourself) were aware of the reasons for Your choice.

Subsequently, You pretend or didn't understand (feigned ignorance) of what it took to make the Mustang (which is a better daily/tourer)... A better track car..!

& that is aftermarket cooling...


Cry more dude... the Mustang GT PP2 is every bit the competitor as the Camaro SS 1LE, it just doesn't look as foolish & doesn't compromise the driver with bad vision.

 

[4V Mayhem]

Nobody said the Mustang is perfect, just a better daily & cross country driver/grand touring..!

YOUR choice was a TRACK car, as clarified by yourself and why I had asked YOU, so others (including yourself) were aware of the reasons for Your choice.

Subsequently, You pretend or didn't understand (feigned ignorance) of what it took to make the Mustang (which is a better daily/tourer)... A better track car..!

& that is aftermarket cooling...


Cry more dude... the Mustang GT PP2 is every bit the competitor as the Camaro SS 1LE, it just doesn't look as foolish & doesn't compromise the driver with bad vision.

It just compromised with coolers...

 

[4V Mayhem]

So the PP2 isn't a track focused car. What exactly is the point of it then?

If it is pointless for someone to buy a 1LE for the street only, then it seems the PP2 is pointless all together, as it is overkill for the street and not meant for the track.

But who decides what is pointless for who? All day on this site I see people speculating this and that about these cars and it's all based on nothing but what they personally think. You try to tell people that perhaps, just perhaps, these things that are such a PITA to them is not an issue at all for others and nope, they cannot fathom that someone else just doesn't care about certain things. People have cars that are full track cars and they DD them. Yet somehow the PP2 and/or SS 1LE is no good if you don't take them to the track? LOL! Give me a break. And I'm not talking about you in particular. Both of these cars are excellent for DD use, track use, and everything else that you can throw at them. You could even throw snow tires on them and drive them in snow. But tell someone else that and no, no way, not possible, never in a million years, haha!!

 

[JohnnyUtah]

But who decides what is pointless for who? All day on this site I see people speculating this and that about these cars and it's all based on nothing but what they personally think. You try to tell people that perhaps, just perhaps, these things that are such a PITA to them is not an issue at all for others and nope, they cannot fathom that someone else just doesn't care about certain things. People have cars that are full track cars and they DD them. Yet somehow the PP2 and/or SS 1LE is no good if you don't take them to the track? LOL! Give me a break. And I'm not talking about you in particular. Both of these cars are excellent for DD use, track use, and everything else that you can throw at them. You could even throw snow tires on them and drive them in snow. But tell someone else that and no, no way, not possible, never in a million years, haha!!

That's my point. There are tons of responses on here flaming a dude for buying a 1LE with no real intent of tracking it, saying that it is pointless and overkill. Yet here comes the PP2 with even more track focused tires and it doesnt even have the equipment needed to track properly. It is laughable and I can't believe that anyone would defend it. Add aftermarket cooling? Seriously? That's the solution? How about they just add the right equipment to match the rest of the intent of the package. Weak sauce.

 

[w3rkn]

It just compromised with coolers...

Absolutely correct^...

But only if you plan on autocrossing, or tracking your Mustang GT Performance Power Pack 2, for extended lengths of time. Then aftermarket coolers will remedy your all day track woes...!

But do tell us...
How do you fix the Camaro SS 1LE's visibility woes..? Or fix the horrid interior and ergonomics..? Or the transformer inspired body styling..?

That is why Camaros are being heavily discounted, & statistically low on monthly sales. And Ford is having record amounts of ordered Mustangs.





I would like to add...
This isn't a contest of "defending the car you bought", or defending yourself... it is in acknowledging and admitting the downfalls & compromises you have to make, when choosing a 2019 Camaro.

Too a good many of people, the looks of the Camaro is hideous. And sitting inside only makes it worse. Everything is hap-hazard and juvenile. (That is not a dig on the people who own the car... they didn't design it, GM did.) I personally have a hard time sitting in a modern Camaro, before I want to puke. It's interior design, seems like high-schooler's designed it.


Set your own purchase aside, and being unbiased... after a short 2h test drive with each, which chassis would you rather choose for a 2,000 mile cross-country jaunt..? Or as a daily..?

 

[thehunterooo]

Both of these cars are excellent for DD use, track use, and everything else that you can throw at them.

So now the Mustang is excellent for DD use?

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