Did anyone ever do a Perf Pack 2 vs 1LE test?

[Mountain376]

Speaking of profits, if the margin on the Camaro is as big as many believe it is, imagine how good GM would be feeling if more people were taking delivery of their product.

Back on topic, I can’t find anywhere where Ford ever touted the PP2 as anything other than an option package for the Mustang that is a step up from the PP1. They have never touted it as a package that make the Mustang a “track” car or a competitor to the 1LE packages offered on the Camaro.

Mike Del Zio - Ford Dynamics Engineer for the Mustang
https://www.fordnxt.com/news/ford-didnt-hold-back-on-the-performance-pack-l2/
“The Level 2 was designed to fit in that gap. I truly believe that we did not leave anything on the table with the Level 2. I will tell you we did not slow that car one bit just to make an artificial gap [to the GT350]. That [PP2] car is as fast as we could possibly make it.”

“Billy [Johnson] was helping us because what you want for sustained high-speed operation is different from what you want on the racetrack. We would go run our big, 5-mile oval and say ‘This car feels really stable and planted.’ Then we would go to the racetrack and Billy would tell us where to make adjustments.”

Steve Turner - FordNXT Journalist
https://www.fordnxt.com/news/billy-johnson-helped-hone-the-2018-mustang-ppl2/
"As we shared in our prior story on the package, the engineers didn’t hold back on the PPL2 development to create an artificial gap between this package and the top-tier Shelby. As such, this package is closer in performance to the GT350 than it is to the Performance Pack Level 1 that it expounds upon."

Billy Johnson - Factory Ford/Professional Race Car Driver and Ford Performance/Multimatic Test Driver:
https://www.fordnxt.com/news/billy-johnson-helped-hone-the-2018-mustang-ppl2/

“While working with the Shelby and Ford GT development groups, there was a track test where the base Mustang guys also attended and I had the chance to hop in their car, drive it, and give them some feedback. That’s another awesome thing that even during the development of the regular Mustangs, they track them right from the beginning. It’s not just do all the street stuff and then, ‘Oh maybe we’ll play around on the track.’ The track is definitely an important part of the development of every Mustang.”

"I had the chance to drive the Performance Pack 1 a long time ago and give them some feedback. Then the Performance Pack 2 test mule came out and I gave them some feedback on that. As things progressed and Performance Pack 2 really turned into a very high-performing base Mustang, they had me come back again and I worked with them on later track events to further dial in the MagneRide and the aerodynamics. As they were playing around with the aero and getting more downforce, we talked about the aerodynamic balance when you are going through corner at 130-140 mph at VIR. Having that aero balance make it stable and easy to drive in the corner. Since I worked on the MagneRide tuning with the Shelby guys, we were able to take that knowledge and further expand on it to help develop the tuning on the Performance Pack 2.”

“It will be a car that you can daily drive, especially with the comfort of the MagneRide. The track-focused Cup 2 tires are obviously aggressive and have a pretty wide footprint all the way around, which definitely helps close the gap to the GT350. It also has more downforce than the standard Mustang, but not quite as much as the Shelby. Compared with the previous Mustang, the 2018 has a higher redline — 7,500 rpm is awesome — so you are closing the gap in terms of horsepower and rev range to the Shelby. While you don’t have the transmission and diff coolers, the car doesn’t cost as much as the Shelby. Overall, you really are getting close in terms of the inherent performance parts and while it may not beat a Shelby around a racetrack (it’s close), the car is very fast and extremely capable.”

So, nothing was ever directly said that it was meant to be a track-capable package, but it sure as hell was implied.

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[garagelogic]

Mike Del Zio - Ford Dynamics Engineer for the Mustang
https://www.fordnxt.com/news/ford-didnt-hold-back-on-the-performance-pack-l2/
“The Level 2 was designed to fit in that gap. I truly believe that we did not leave anything on the table with the Level 2. I will tell you we did not slow that car one bit just to make an artificial gap [to the GT350]. That [PP2] car is as fast as we could possibly make it.”

“Billy [Johnson] was helping us because what you want for sustained high-speed operation is different from what you want on the racetrack. We would go run our big, 5-mile oval and say ‘This car feels really stable and planted.’ Then we would go to the racetrack and Billy would tell us where to make adjustments.”

Steve Turner - FordNXT Journalist
https://www.fordnxt.com/news/billy-johnson-helped-hone-the-2018-mustang-ppl2/
"As we shared in our prior story on the package, the engineers didn’t hold back on the PPL2 development to create an artificial gap between this package and the top-tier Shelby. As such, this package is closer in performance to the GT350 than it is to the Performance Pack Level 1 that it expounds upon."

Billy Johnson - Factory Ford/Professional Race Car Driver and Ford Performance/Multimatic Test Driver:
https://www.fordnxt.com/news/billy-johnson-helped-hone-the-2018-mustang-ppl2/

“While working with the Shelby and Ford GT development groups, there was a track test where the base Mustang guys also attended and I had the chance to hop in their car, drive it, and give them some feedback. That’s another awesome thing that even during the development of the regular Mustangs, they track them right from the beginning. It’s not just do all the street stuff and then, ‘Oh maybe we’ll play around on the track.’ The track is definitely an important part of the development of every Mustang.”

"I had the chance to drive the Performance Pack 1 a long time ago and give them some feedback. Then the Performance Pack 2 test mule came out and I gave them some feedback on that. As things progressed and Performance Pack 2 really turned into a very high-performing base Mustang, they had me come back again and I worked with them on later track events to further dial in the MagneRide and the aerodynamics. As they were playing around with the aero and getting more downforce, we talked about the aerodynamic balance when you are going through corner at 130-140 mph at VIR. Having that aero balance make it stable and easy to drive in the corner. Since I worked on the MagneRide tuning with the Shelby guys, we were able to take that knowledge and further expand on it to help develop the tuning on the Performance Pack 2.”

“It will be a car that you can daily drive, especially with the comfort of the MagneRide. The track-focused Cup 2 tires are obviously aggressive and have a pretty wide footprint all the way around, which definitely helps close the gap to the GT350. It also has more downforce than the standard Mustang, but not quite as much as the Shelby. Compared with the previous Mustang, the 2018 has a higher redline — 7,500 rpm is awesome — so you are closing the gap in terms of horsepower and rev range to the Shelby. While you don’t have the transmission and diff coolers, the car doesn’t cost as much as the Shelby. Overall, you really are getting close in terms of the inherent performance parts and while it may not beat a Shelby around a racetrack (it’s close), the car is very fast and extremely capable.”

So, nothing was ever directly said that it was meant to be a track-capable package, but it sure as hell was implied.

Right. Ford never said the PP2 package was intended to make a GT a track car. Just like I said. Of course, you, and anyone else, is free to infer whatever you like from the information you have until your heart is content. It doesn’t mean you’re right.

 

[BmacIL]

Right. Ford never said the PP2 package was intended to make a GT a track car. Just like I said. Of course, you, and anyone else, is free to infer whatever you like from the information you have until your heart is content. It doesn’t mean you’re right.

It's a much, much bigger reach to say it's not a track car when you read those quotes than to say that it is one. I don't understand the double standard. GM certainly has stated similar things about the 1LE and no one doubts its intentions as a track car. Sure, it, like the PP2, retains all the creature comforts, but the unique equipment of the PP2 is without doubt (and confirmed by Ford in those statements) all about establishing a high level of track performance.

 

[garagelogic]

It's a much, much bigger reach to say it's not a track car when you read those quotes than to say that it is one. I don't understand the double standard. GM certainly has stated similar things about the 1LE and no one doubts its intentions as a track car. Sure, it, like the PP2, retains all the creature comforts, but the unique equipment of the PP2 is without doubt (and confirmed by Ford in those statements) all about establishing a high level of track performance.

Nobody can doubt the 1LE package’s intent, as GM boldly proclaimed in their press release,

2013 CHEVROLET CAMARO RANGE EXPANDS WITH TRACK-READY 1LE PACKAGE

 

[JohnnyUtah]

A car not intended for the track with Sport Cup 2s... brilliant. Those things probably barely get warm enough on the street to even do what they are designed for.

 

[Mountain376]

Right. Ford never said the PP2 package was intended to make a GT a track car. Just like I said. Of course, you, and anyone else, is free to infer whatever you like from the information you have until your heart is content. It doesn’t mean you’re right.

Let's be real, here. Sorry to hurt your feelings that me and others are being realistic about what was projected for the car. Sorry you are having a hard time interpreting what Ford has said.

 

[Mountain376]

Nobody can doubt the 1LE package’s intent, as GM boldly proclaimed in their press release,

2013 CHEVROLET CAMARO RANGE EXPANDS WITH TRACK-READY 1LE PACKAGE

Guy, the argument is the original intention. Ford seems to have stated it is not through the R&T article. However, given the development of the car and the parts placed on the car, the argument is of what the intention originally was. In association, why the change of heart.

If you just want to put a lap time down for magazines and marketing, Ford could have done that without the investment (time, money, resources and complexity) that was done with the PP2 package equipment.

-They developed track-specific aero for the car
-They developed track-specific, GT350-inspired calibrations for the MRC
-They developed track-specific ABS tuning
-They developed track-specific Stability Control
-They developed track-specific chassis upgrades
-They placed track-specific tires on the car (yes, my friend, they are tires that are the most track-specific tires an OEM can use; just because other OEMs use them doesn't discount that fact)
-They developed new springs for the car (nearly GT350 springs, which is Ford's track Mustang; why not just use GT350 springs?)
-They developed new sway bars for the car (nearly GT350 sway bars, which is Ford's track Mustang; why not just use GT350 sway bars, like they had done between the GT500/Boss 302 and GT TP cars in the past?)

Nope. No intention there to be trackabe. That makes no sense...

 

[garagelogic]

Let's be real, here. Sorry to hurt your feelings that me and others are being realistic about what was projected for the car. Sorry you are having a hard time interpreting what Ford has said.

Yeah, I’m really torn up over here. As I’ve stated many times already, you’re free to believe whatever you want about what Ford intended the PP2 to be but that doesn’t make your opinion any more valid than mine. Seems to me your the one getting bent out of shape here because not everyone is agreeing with your perspective on the situation.

 

[garagelogic]

Guy, the argument is the original intention. Ford seems to have stated it is not through the R&T article. However, given the development of the car and the parts placed on the car, the argument is of what the intention originally was. In association, why the change of heart.

If you just want to put a lap time down for magazines and marketing, Ford could have done that without the investment (time, money, resources and complexity) that was done with the PP2 package equipment.

-They developed track-specific aero for the car
-They developed track-specific, GT350-inspired calibrations for the MRC
-They developed track-specific ABS tuning
-They developed track-specific Stability Control
-They developed track-specific chassis upgrades
-They placed track-specific tires on the car (yes, my friend, they are tires that are the most track-specific tires an OEM can use; just because other OEMs use them doesn't discount that fact)
-They developed new springs for the car (nearly GT350 springs, which is Ford's track Mustang; why not just use GT350 springs?)
-They developed new sway bars for the car (nearly GT350 sway bars, which is Ford's track Mustang; why not just use GT350 sway bars, like they had done between the GT500/Boss 302 and GT TP cars in the past?)

Nope. No intention there to be trackabe. That makes no sense...

Opinion and nothing more. Which is fine. You obviously are trying to make some point about Ford and what you believe the PP2 option intent was versus what was delivered. So, you’re unhappy with what was delivered versus what you thought it would be? I’m sure you’re not alone. Oh, well.

 

[Mountain376]

Yeah, I’m really torn up over here. As I’ve stated many times already, you’re free to believe whatever you want about what Ford intended the PP2 to be but that doesn’t make your opinion any more valid than mine. Seems to me your the one getting bent out of shape here because not everyone is agreeing with your perspective on the situation.

Nor are they yours.

“Disappointed” would be the correct term. As a Mustang fan and enthusiast. Just a few months ago, I was a potential buyer for a PP2. I’m not mad or bent up - I’ve got a different car that fills my needs very well, in its place.

My opinion is one based on facts, experience and logic. Your stance seems more emotionally tied and defensive to being a Mustang owner. That’s the point of my replies - being open minded, looking at the facts and making a logical conclusion.

The attitude change to being nonchalant is typically one by those that realize their position is flawed.

 

[garagelogic]

Nor are they yours.

“Disappointed” would be the correct term. As a Mustang fan and enthusiast. Just a few months ago, I was a potential buyer for a PP2. I’m not mad or bent up - I’ve got a different car that fills my needs very well, in its place.

My opinion is one based on facts, experience and logic. Your stance seems more emotionally tied and defensive to being a Mustang owner. That’s the point of my replies - being open minded, looking at the facts and making a logical conclusion.

The attitude change to being nonchalant is typically one by those that realize their position is flawed.

Oh no, random people on an internet message board don’t agree with me. Whatever will I do?! . Congrats on owning a car that fits your needs. That’s the only reason to buy a car, IMO. Your suggestion that I’m emotionally tied to a particular make/model just shows that you have no clue about me as an automotive enthusiast or the cars I have owned/driven/raced in my 52 years on this earth. I’m not sure where you ever got the idea that you had any talent at psychology, but you might want to re-examine your skill sets, as you missed the mark.

 

[Mountain376]

Oh no, random people on an internet message board don’t agree with me. Whatever will I do?! . Congrats on owning a car that fits your needs. That’s the only reason to buy a car, IMO. Your suggestion that I’m emotionally tied to a particular make/model just shows that you have no clue about me as an automotive enthusiast or the cars I have owned/driven/raced in my 52 years on this earth. I’m not sure where you ever got the idea that you had any talent at psychology, but you might want to re-examine your skill sets, as you missed the mark.

Yup, I’ll apologize for that one. While reading through the pages I got you mixed with another users it seems (the new forum display and writing in between doing things threw me off). Definite mix up on my part - my mistake!

 

[garagelogic]

Yup, I’ll apologize for that one. While reading through the pages I got you mixed with another users it seems (the new forum display and writing in between doing things threw me off). Definite mix up on my part - my mistake!

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[thehunterooo]

A happy ending

 

[16 GT MM/Auto]

Gotta love forums ...

People debating everything, and literally nothing. lol

Still, it's a great place to get info ... of both the correct and completely wrong variety.

Oh well.

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