Did anyone ever do a Perf Pack 2 vs 1LE test?

[w3rkn]

Nor are they yours.

“Disappointed” would be the correct term. As a Mustang fan and enthusiast. Just a few months ago, I was a potential buyer for a PP2. I’m not mad or bent up - I’ve got a different car that fills my needs very well, in its place.

My opinion is one based on facts, experience and logic. Your stance seems more emotionally tied and defensive to being a Mustang owner. That’s the point of my replies - being open minded, looking at the facts and making a logical conclusion.

The attitude change to being nonchalant is typically one by those that realize their position is flawed.

How many times have you tracked your car since you got it..? How many more times this summer do you plan on tracking your car, since you got it...?

What facts are you speaking of, plz... (source)…? What logic are you speaking of..?

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[Mountain376]

1. How many times have you tracked your car since you got it..? How many more times this summer do you plan on tracking your car, since you got it...?

2. What facts are you speaking of, plz... (source)…? What logic are you speaking of..?

1. I've only taken it out twice, so far. I've only had the car since the end of April and I have other things going on this summer. Going forward? A lot. That is why I bought the car. That is what the car is intended for...

Is there a point to your question?

Let me guess, you want to shove something in my face how I'm not even using my car? Good luck.

2. First off, the facts I posted from the interviews on the development of the PP2 and the intent indicated by Ford's words. Second, personal experience dealing with product development in powertrain, drivetrain and vehicle dynamics. Third, networking with other people who do this stuff. Fourth, knowledge of developing track cars and race cars as a hobby. If you want sources for the majority of the topics, I'm sorry, but that's a "no".

Let's look at things from a slightly different perspective:

Let's turn the Mustang PP2 into a sail boat. Let's call it the Mustang the "Sea Horse" and the PP2 the "Extreme Package".

-Now, Sea Horse already has their base boat, a nice, sleek sporty sail boat. They also have a more spirited version, say a "Competition Package". However, the sailboats are only really designed for used on in-land lakes and calmer, large lakes. If you want to take the boat on a larger lake where you see higher winds and harsher waves, without worry, you need to add some additional structural support to the boat. Nothing the aftermarket boat industry cannot take care of. Or, you can step up to the more equipped, more expensive brother to the Sea Horse called "Sea Serpent," which is the race-inspired boat, intended for pure enthusiast use. But you have people who love the Sea Horse, they don't want to buy the expensive Sea Serpent, and are just dying for the company to release something they can just pick up and take out to whatever lake they want and have fun with it - no worries.

-Suddenly, the word is that a Sea Horse "Extreme Package" is going to be released by the company. The company for Sea Horse, then, begins releasing all kinds of media about this new package:

"We are doing extensive testing and development on the Extreme Package. We have take it to all the big lakes - run it through some very aggressive waves and winds."

"Nothing is being held back in comparison to the Sea Serpent."

"The Extreme Package is going to use a derivative of the Sea Serpents high-wind sail, tweaked with what we learned from development of that sail."

"Development on all lakes, especially those in conditions with big waves and high winds, is crucial to the development."

"The Extreme Package isn't as capable as the Sea Serpent, but the gap is very close."

-The company even holds a media event for the boat at yacht club off a decently large lake; one where people with Sea Serpents typically go. The company allows certain, select people and media to sail the boats out on the lake for a little while.

-This all sounds fantastic. Cool! Finally, a sail boat that can be taken out, anywhere, and used as intended, without worry, straight from the factory, but at a lesser price point than the great Sea Serpent.

-Fast forward to the release:

"No, we don't recommend that you take the Extreme Package out to the bigger lakes with higher winds and more aggressive waves. This boat is not made for that."

-Hmm.. OK? But... you said... you did... OK?

 

[w3rkn]

1. I've only taken it out twice, so far. I've only had the car since the end of April and I have other things going on this summer. Going forward? A lot. That is why I bought the car. That is what the car is intended for...

Is there a point to your question?

Let me guess, you want to shove something in my face how I'm not even using my car? Good luck.

2. First off, the facts I posted from the interviews on the development of the PP2 and the intent indicated by Ford's words. Second, personal experience dealing with product development in powertrain, drivetrain and vehicle dynamics. Third, networking with other people who do this stuff. Fourth, knowledge of developing track cars and race cars as a hobby. If you want sources for the majority of the topics, I'm sorry, but that's a "no".

Let's look at things from a slightly different perspective: Let's turn the Mustang PP2 into a sail boat. Let's call it the Mustang the "Sea Horse" and the PP2 the "Extreme Package".

-Hmm.. OK? But... you said... you did... OK?

*laughing ^^*​

OK, how much do you DRIVE your car on public roads..? (95% of the time..?)

I am trying to gauge what you gain from YOUR CHOICE, over the Mustang GT. Track cars are great and trackers rarely look out the back window or have your head on a swivel, as you would in public, etc. So I understand the 1LE for TRACK USE ONLY.

But for a daily driver, the Camaro is fail.


So much so, that buying a Mustang GT and adding your own cooling is a much better option for those who live on the track, but want an all-around better car for daily driving and cross-country touring/driving/trips, etc.

 

[Laststandard]

My 1LE isn't my daily, but I'll take it to work and use it to run errands when the weather is nice. I haven't even merged into anyone even though I can't see out the sides or back! I also wouldn't hesitate to take it cross-country. The Recaro's are damn comfortable for me, and the ride is excellent in touring mode.

Anyways.. these aren't supposed to be practical daily driver cars! If you're so worried about visibility, comfort and storage space go buy a cute little Rav4 or something.

 

[thehunterooo]

My 1LE isn't my daily, but I'll take it to work and use it to run errands when the weather is nice. I haven't even merged into anyone even though I can't see out the sides or back! I also wouldn't hesitate to take it cross-country. The Recaro's are damn comfortable for me, and the ride is excellent in touring mode.

Anyways.. these aren't supposed to be practical daily driver cars! If you're so worried about visibility, comfort and storage space go buy a cute little Rav4 or something.

Any trips to Walmart?

 

[Laststandard]

Any trips to Walmart?

Damn straight. Where else would I get hair products to keep my mullet looking good?

 

[FastCarFanBoy]

they left the coolers off so it wouldn't step on the Shelby's track toes.

 

[Mountain376]

*laughing ^^*​

OK, how much do you DRIVE your car on public roads..? (95% of the time..?)

I am trying to gauge what you gain from YOUR CHOICE, over the Mustang GT. Track cars are great and trackers rarely look out the back window or have your head on a swivel, as you would in public, etc. So I understand the 1LE for TRACK USE ONLY.

But for a daily driver, the Camaro is fail.


So much so, that buying a Mustang GT and adding your own cooling is a much better option for those who live on the track, but want an all-around better car for daily driving and cross-country touring/driving/trips, etc.

This isn’t worth my time anymore, lol. Wow...

Sweet wheels the PP2 has. Damn sweet!! I love what Ford was trying to do. However, the car makes no sense as it falls short. If it were autocross directed (it isn’t) - ok. I get it. It’s not drag race directed. It’s not track (road course) directed. What is it? Street? The PP1 is the sporty, street directed car. Read between the lines and you’ll see the purpose.

Later.

 

[w3rkn]

But you have not presented any facts, or form of logic... to any of your rebuttals, as you are claiming.

I am not saying the Mustang GT PP2 is as capable as an all day track car as the Camaro 1LE in stock form. But for a few bucks in the aftermarket, it is.

So I was asking your justification of YOUR statements, when the Mustang is clearly a better daily driver and all-around nicer car. And for a few bucks more, just as capable as the 1LE as an all day track car, coolers and all...

Again, it is worth noting that the 2018+ PP2's performance is equal to the 1LE's, it is just not set up for all day track duty. Which again is easily remedied if that is your need.

?

 

[Mountain376]

But you have not presented any facts, or form of logic... to any of your rebuttals, as you are claiming.

I am not saying the Mustang GT PP2 is as capable as an all day track car as the Camaro 1LE in stock form. But for a few bucks in the aftermarket, it is.

So I was asking your justification of YOUR statements, when the Mustang is clearly a better daily driver and all-around nicer car. And for a few bucks more, just as capable as the 1LE as an all day track car, coolers and all...

Again, it is worth noting that the 2018+ PP2's performance is equal to the 1LE's, it is just not set up for all day track duty. Which again is easily remedied if that is your need.

?

Your comment comes as one asinine in trying to examine my personal decision, assuming you understand my needs and expectations for a vehicle. Then thowing “Mustang is better” in my face, where I’m not even talking about Mustang in the general sense. Guy, “WTF”?

Go back. Re-read what I’ve posted. Then, think about, if you were developing your own car to be sold to the public, what all of that means.

You make a fair argument about the PP2, but than there’s the PP1 that you can do the same with... Consider the hardware, PP1 (w/MRC) vs PP2. Your mostly getting different tuning, beautiful wheels and tires that are complete throw aways (they dont last long, at all, on or off the track) for $6,500. You can try to argue the springs and sways, but those are things way under $1000 any way you look (aftermarket or OEM GT350).

PP2 = marketing point and sweet wheels.

It’s one thing if you develop a car like this and just make it available (don’t make all this track talk). It’s another if you project all this potential and play peoples expectations on intent.

 

[w3rkn]

Your comment comes as one asinine in trying to examine my personal decision, assuming you understand my needs and expectations for a vehicle. Then thowing “Mustang is better” in my face, where I’m not even talking about Mustang in the general sense. Guy, “WTF”?

Go back. Re-read what I’ve posted. Then, think about, if you were developing your own car to be sold to the public, what all of that means.

You make a fair argument about the PP2, but than there’s the PP1 that you can do the same with... Consider the hardware, PP1 (w/MRC) vs PP2. Your mostly getting different tuning, beautiful wheels and tires that are complete throw aways (they dont last long, at all, on or off the track) for $6,500. You can try to argue the springs and sways, but those are things way under $1000 any way you look (aftermarket or OEM GT350).

PP2 = marketing point and sweet wheels.

It’s one thing if you develop a car like this and just make it available (don’t make all this track talk). It’s another if you project all this potential and play peoples expectations on intent.

wtf..?

Nobody here is talking about you, or your choices. We are discussing the merits of the Mustang GT PP2 -vs- the merits of a Camaro 1LE. You seem to be one of those people, unable to separate your personal situation & car, from the debate. And instead assume this is discussion is about YOUR car, instead of the Camaro.

BTW, the difference between the PP1 and PP2 is $810...



And yes, the Camaro SS 1LE is no where near as suited for daily driving as is the Mustang GT PP1 or PP2.

Every review of the Camaro will mention the horrible visibility of that platform, making it a horrible choice in most everybody's opinion, save the few who got deal on the Camaro and bought one. That is why the sales are down, because the car is too hard to see out of.

Track worthiness is the ONLY argument Camaro owner's have... I only explained how that logic is short lived, due to aftermarket..

 

[Nabush]

Just sold my 2018 GT PP1 for a SS 1LE. Visibility is not an issue at all. I have absolutely no issues, I don't know where the fuss is coming from... People don't know how to setup their mirror or use akward driving positions ??

 

[thehunterooo]

Just sold my 2018 GT PP1 for a SS 1LE. Visibility is not an issue at all. I have absolutely no issues, I don't know where the fuss is coming from... People don't know how to setup their mirror or use akward driving positions ??

The same people that are scared to rev past 3k rpm.

 

[millhouse]

Just sold my 2018 GT PP1 for a SS 1LE. Visibility is not an issue at all. I have absolutely no issues, I don't know where the fuss is coming from... People don't know how to setup their mirror or use akward driving positions ??

Visibility is more than just adjusting your mirrors. You own a 1LE and you will now need to justify your purchase. Every single major review publication notes the camaro's horrendous visibility. It's an issue beyond adjust mirrors for many people.

 

[martinjlm]

Just sold my 2018 GT PP1 for a SS 1LE. Visibility is not an issue at all. I have absolutely no issues, I don't know where the fuss is coming from... People don't know how to setup their mirror or use akward driving positions ??

YOU LIE!!! What is wrong with you? There is absolutely no way you can see out of that gun turret. And what is this mirror position thing you Camaro owners keep crowing about? I've been setting my mirrors the same way (the RIGHT way) since I was 7 and I've never had an accident. And what about seeing out the back? Oh, right....camera. Hate to have to rely on a camera to know what's behind me.

***NOTE: The above is about as much sarcasm as I can muster on a Sunday morning I own a 2017 Camaro. Just because Bob "can't see out of it" doesn't mean that John can't either. I'm not gonna tell anybody that they will feel comfortable in the driver seat of a Camaro, but I also expect that they shouldn't be trying to tell me what I can or cannot see out of mine. On a parallel point, I find the driving position of most Mustangs I've driven recently to be too tall. From a driving feel perspective, not from a visual perspective. From time to time I hear the term "I feel like I'm sitting on the car, not in the car" tossed around by a number of reviewers. I would never go so far as to tell people, "stay away from the Mustang...the seating position sucks if you're trying to do any serious corner carving". I wouldn't go that far because even though reviewers say that AND I have experienced it myself, I know that other people will experience that differently, so let 'em.

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