Nabush
Well-Known Member
Hi,For a same track, same day comparrison:
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/mustang/2017/2017-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-vs-2017-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350r-review/
GT350R: 3713 lbs
SS 1LE: 3746 lbs
SS ZL1: 3912 lbs (ouch, that's fully loaded Mustang GT Premium territory!)
The ZL1 boasts a 125 HP advantage and ran a 1:27.9 second lap time. The GT350R ran a 1:28.29 second lap time. Difference: 0.39 seconds.
Looks like willow springs is NOT a track where the ZL1 can leverage it's massive 125 HP advantage.
Yet the 2.5 mile long Lighting Lap in the C&D tests (I know, they were not the same days, so the results are some what incomparable, but give us a general idea), we have the following times:
SS 1LE: 2:54.8 seconds
GT350R: 2:51.8 seconds (3 seconds faster but has a substantial 70 HP advantage)
SS ZL1: 2:45.7 seconds (6.1 seconds fast but has a very substantial 125 HP advantage, near double the power advantage over the GT350R, nearly double the time difference)
Ratios:
3 sec / 70 hp = 0.043 sec / hp.
6.1 sec / 125 hp = 0.049 sec / hp
Gee golly, the cars making more power are proportionally faster and in similar configurations are nearly identical in weight and actual physical proportions. They are so close, they are only an inch or two apart in most dimensions. What a surprise that they run similar times when configured for actual track duty.
I think the reality is the two chassis architectures are nearly identical in weight. It all comes down to tires, driver, power and suspension tuning. Ford simply does not set up the regular GT's or GT PP's like the 1LE. Not even close. The regular GT is set up like a Fusion Sedan, it's pure grand touring with a reasonably powerful engine.
The Performance Package GT's are set up like a standard 1/2SS, but the older 2015-2017's have an average power deficit of about 23~30 hp if you do an area compare of their power bands (to the wheels) and are a little heavier to boot (about 60~70 lbs if you get a Performance Package only and not a Premium, the clock in around 3780 lbs).
That's what people want, a Grand Touring car and that's why Ford sells them set up like the GT's name sake and not the Super Sport track car, but the GT has the same potential if you want to blend the two and you can do it under warranty.
Ford makes the sales numbers on run of the mill slush box GT's, for those wanting a street performance car, they have Performance Package. For those wanting more of an actual track car, they have Ford Performance factory upgrades which are covered by warranty when installed by a dealership.
I did the Power Pack 2 in my GT and it really brought the 5.0 to life.
2018+'s make a little more average power than the LT1 6.2 or a Power Pack 2 2015-2017, maybe slightly less than a Power Pack 3 2015-2017 5.0. The 2015-2017's with a Power Pack 2 make nearly identical power (just a hair more, 5~7 hp on average) to the LT1 6.2 just shifted 500 rpm higher. With the SS you get as much as they can give you out of the box. With the GT, you get about 90~95% out of the box. If you care about that last couple percent, pay for the factory upgrades. GM also offers factory upgrades for the SS as well, just not as many.
If you don't option the crap out of a GT, weights are within 50 lbs. So it comes down to driver, suspension tuning and tires. That's what the after market is for. Sky is the limit!
The fastest track cars, SS or GT alike are not bone stock factory cars. The fastest of each are going to be highly modified from their factory setups, but you can generally get the GT's cheaper because there are quite a few more of them, but you also have to do more to them because they are just not set up like the SS from the factory.
Ford did build in a very substantial potential however. The most critical areas of design are there as a foundation, it's just buried in soft rubber bushings and very anemic engine tuning.
So do you want a car that's great out of the box and just drive it as is or do you want to make it your own creation and tailor it to your particular applications? Drag, Auto X and HDPE all have very different requirements and the fastest cars in each category are set up very differently of any factory configuration in either a GT or SS.
I don't think your graphs are true.
PP3 power pack decrease significantly the torque under 5000 rpm, and max torque is lower than PP2
There is no way PP3 has more power below 4500-5000 rpm even than a stock LT1. Your graph shows PP3 which more power even at 2000 rpm which is a real joke....
I have a 2018 GT stock (which is like between PP2 and PP3 level of performance for a gen 2 coyote) and a C7 GrandSport (both manual) and even when the vette was stock it was murdering the GT below 4500 rpm, the Coyote has nowhere near as much torque... and Gen 3 Coyote is known to have way more torque down low than the Gen2...
Edit : by the way, VIR ZL1 time is 2min50.1, 2min45.7 is ZL1 1LE
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