Deatschwerks X3 Fuel system

[NGOT8R]

Very interesting thread here so I thought I would join in for the first time and attempt to contribute. Looks like to me based off the dual pump GT500 diagram that FPC (control) is the power side and FPM (monitor) is the ground side. Likely that Ford is using the ground to control PWM. The GT diagram is the same, just with a single FPCM. Would love to see a PWM controller option from VaporWorks.

I emailed those diagrams to Carl at VaporWorx on Thursday. He said he‘d Look into them and let me know what he comes up with. I’ll report back here with his response once he replies back to me.

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[engineermike]

Fpc is the control signal from the pcm. It can be 0-50% for speed control and discreet duty cycles above that to commands other things. Fpm is monitoring and its the diagnostics and status feedback to the pcm.

 

[svomadness]

Fpc is the control signal from the pcm. It can be 0-50% for speed control and discreet duty cycles above that to commands other things. Fpm is monitoring and its the diagnostics and status feedback to the pcm.

Sounds like power side control would make things easier for VaporWorx to give us a controller. Are you thinking that is the control side Mike?

 

[engineermike]

Fpc is the control side, but if you’re running another controller off of the oem commands then you can choose to use either the fpc or the output to the pump as an input to a brushless or pwm controller.

 

[svomadness]

Thoughts on running dual 295's in a Radium hanger through a Radium filter w/ check valve powered by a VaporWorx controller?

 

[mejohn50]

Thoughts on running dual 295's in a Radium hanger through a Radium filter w/ check valve powered by a VaporWorx controller?

Personally, I would try to find a single pump solution that your tuner supports that can feed your setup. I’m not sure how much power you’re making, but the DW400+BAP can support enough power on E85 that you’re getting to the point of at least considering a built bottom end. The DW810 looks to be able to go well beyond needing a motor. I’ll define “needing a motor” as >850whp with a supercharger.

The Radium stuff is all good to go as far as I’m concerned. I don’t have the Radium bucket (yet) but all the other Radium parts I’ve had, including the fuel filter, have been high quality.

 

[LOL WUT]

Thoughts on running dual 295's in a Radium hanger through a Radium filter w/ check valve powered by a VaporWorx controller?

Personally, I would try to find a single pump solution that your tuner supports that can feed your setup. I’m not sure how much power you’re making, but the DW400+BAP can support enough power on E85 that you’re getting to the point of at least considering a built bottom end. The DW810 looks to be able to go well beyond needing a motor. I’ll define “needing a motor” as >850whp with a supercharger.

The Radium stuff is all good to go as far as I’m concerned. I don’t have the Radium bucket (yet) but all the other Radium parts I’ve had, including the fuel filter, have been high quality.

I second this. If you’re good with adding a controller for a brushless pump, get a DW810, radium bucket, and send it. If you want to stay brushed, a boosted DW400 will go a long way. So long as your tuner is cool with it.

 

[Cordero1]

I second this. If you’re good with adding a controller for a brushless pump, get a DW810, radium bucket, and send it. If you want to stay brushed, a boosted DW400 will go a long way. So long as your tuner is cool with it.

What would be a good controller for this set up? Would the stock fuel line suffice or would that have to be replaced for a bigger feed line? This is the route I plan on taking just have no idea what I'm doing. Only fuel system I've ever messed with was a Sai li kit on my 14 & that was a breeze, but I didn't like that it was a return style

 

[LOL WUT]

What would be a good controller for this set up? Would the stock fuel line suffice or would that have to be replaced for a bigger feed line? This is the route I plan on taking just have no idea what I'm doing. Only fuel system I've ever messed with was a Sai li kit on my 14 & that was a breeze, but I didn't like that it was a return style

Unfortunately I’m not too sure on the controller. This is the setup I wish I went with in hindsight. However, the stock fuel line should be fine into the 800s for HP.

 

[NGOT8R]

What would be a good controller for this set up? Would the stock fuel line suffice or would that have to be replaced for a bigger feed line? This is the route I plan on taking just have no idea what I'm doing. Only fuel system I've ever messed with was a Sai li kit on my 14 & that was a breeze, but I didn't like that it was a return style

They reference -6AN and -8AN fittings, so the line would need to be upgraded.

 

[engineermike]

Dw only offers the dw810 with a 2 speed controller, which means you’ll need to run a regulator. I’d like it in a radium bucket with the regulator built into the hat. Seemingly it’s a simple setup with no return line, and low speed will help keep the fuel cool. I’ll go out on a limb and say the stock line is fine for the bap/dw400 well into the 900 rwhp range. Above that the dw810 would need an external filter added anyway so it makes a clean breakpoint to upgrade the rest of the line too.

So I’ll say it….for most people under 900 rwhp a single jms bap on a dw400 with dw95 injectors will do just fine but most tuners won’t touch it. From 900 to 1100, Id go with the above dw810 setup though ideally it would be available with a continuously variable speed controller and ditch the regulator. Above 1100 probably the veyron pump and ID 100 amp controller.

 

[Cordero1]

I think that's the issue for most of us with the bap/dw400, the tuner. I would love to go that direction on E85 & keep it that way until I have a new block/trans to go in, then upgrade to a full return-less type system.

 

[Cordero1]

They reference -6AN and -8AN fittings, so the line would need to be upgraded.

If this is the case, & the regulator would be in the radium bucket, could the stock line just be used for the vacuum line to the regulator?

 

[mejohn50]

I am certain this exists (maybe not 100% plug and play, but close enough) up to significant power levels, let's say 1000whp on E85. Then it goes back to who will tune it. It does seem like there is one mainstream tuner right now who is willing to go a little outside the box on certain hardware choices, including fueling from what I have seen. The DW400+BAP is absolutely the easy button for up to 800whp or so on E85.

The DW810 looks like it can supply a ton of fuel, but I have a few concerns with some non-performance things about it. The older DW brushless pumps, like the DW440, were known to have some issues with starting the car on the first button press and also basically completely losing remote start because the controller doesn't boot up quick enough. I don't know if the DW810 controller has improved this, but it would be something I would need to investigate before getting it. In all reality, the same concerns hold true for the E5LM+controller and/or the ID BPC100...I would need to know how quickly the controllers boot up before dropping the money. This may be meaningless for some people, but it's a dealbreaker for me.

If I were putting a more capable fuel system together for my car today, and I didn't have any concerns about the controllers for the brushless pumps, I would get a DW810, a Radium bucket, and a -8 feed line with filter running in a return-less config. I am not certain my wallet would be able to find the limits of that setup, which is likely well into the range of needing an upgraded short block.

I believe I need to make a correction to something I said in this post.

I mentioned that brushless *controllers* may be an issue considering how quickly they start up and get fuel moving to the engine.

I have looked back at where I developed that perception and I realize I may be completely incorrect. I believe the issue that I potentially incorrectly perceived as a controller issue may actually be an issue caused by the lack of a check valve in the specific pump I was looking at.

I would still need to see concrete data showing that the issue of the vehicle not immediately starting with something like a DW810 is not an issue if installed correctly including a check valve. BUT, it looks like the issue I was basing this off of is likely not the controller at all but instead the lack of a check valve, which is easily remedied.

 

[NGOT8R]

If this is the case, & the regulator would be in the radium bucket, could the stock line just be used for the vacuum line to the regulator?

Are you referring to a Deatschwerks or Aeromotove style regulator for the radium bucket? I don’t know if either would fit, as they’re pretty big, especially with the lines connected. I would also think a flexible line would be preferred over the factory line, which IMO is very cheaply made.

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