Cracked R carbon wheel

[pocketAA]

I’d be consulting a lawyer if this was me because this is bull shit.

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[MikeR397]

I’d be consulting a lawyer if this was me because this is bull shit.

Your lawyer fees might stack up higher than the cost of a cf wheel real quick... saying this as a (non practicing) lawyer

 

[shogun32]

nope, this is for road hazard and that is not road impact damage

uhhh, that's what excessive heat will do to any fiberglass/fiber structure. At enough heat epoxy plasticizes and swells and very much so in the presence of humidity. High temp CF can hold structure up to 500F which in light of caliper temps is not exactly hot.

Ford warranty department not surprisingly staffed by people ignorant of CF and the heat properties of brake systems when used heavily. Unless the warranty excludes "driving on a track" or other repetitive maximum braking activities...

There is apparently a fiberglass or similar layer over the CF and under the ceramic thermal barrier; this may actually be where the failure happened (i.e., the wheel may be structurally still sound, but that bubble is still hitting the caliper and of course the thermal protection is shot).

Sounds like a bad decision - unless it's all done in one fell swoop. I would first ultra-sound the area before slicing across the defect.

 

[oldbmwfan]

@oldbmmwfan, feel free to use This thread however. That bubble is crazy! Your wheel warranty shloid absolute cover it. Leave our discussion of track use always even if it shouldn’t matter.

Yeah, hard to hide it when the tire has the very obvious "squirmy," melted-rubber tread pattern from high cornering loads. The dealer service techs were asking, "How did this tire get so worn out?" I responded, "What do you mean? It's brand new!" Heh.

At any rate, the Ford warranty has no language about non-competitive track driving voiding anything. Given that they introduced the model at the race track and publish specifications for track use including alignments, tire pressures, and other things in the owner's manual, it would be hard for them to say that lapping a track is somehow beyond the design spec of the car.

 

[cosmic charlie]

i dont think they offer this warranty anymore for the R wheels.

Yea, it only took the warranty bean counters 3 years to figure out "dam these wheels are expensive to replace!" Time to end the wheel and tire warranty on that car.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Yeah, hard to hide it when the tire has the very obvious "squirmy," melted-rubber tread pattern from high cornering loads. The dealer service techs were asking, "How did this tire get so worn out?" I responded, "What do you mean? It's brand new!" Heh.

At any rate, the Ford warranty has no language about non-competitive track driving voiding anything. Given that they introduced the model at the race track and publish specifications for track use including alignments, tire pressures, and other things in the owner's manual, it would be hard for them to say that lapping a track is somehow beyond the design spec of the car.

Don’t shoot the messenger...

To be as crystal clear as possible - the attached is directly from Ford - interpret it as you wish, but pay very close attention to not only how the main body is worded, but also the addendum for “Racing”.

Ford’s Legal Team has worded their position in such a way that if “racing” - in effect can void warranty repair on any part of the vehicle:

——

I’m on your side and agree that the bubbled rim should be replaced under the Ford Warranty for defects in the manufacturing process OR due to failure of materials.

In order for the R carbon wheels to even be put on a production vehicle, they have to go under extensive testing not only from a safety aspect, but from a functional aspect. If the wheel was going to crack, “meltdown” or bubble after any track use, the Test Engineers would have experienced those concerns as well and design changes would be implemented.

While carbon fiber is strong, it can have unforeseen flaws during the manufacturing process, especially in between layering - and it can be cracked if mishandled or if it suffers a load bearing event in excess of its intentional design. Therefore in the bubbled rim instance, it’s clearly a defect in materials and Ford or the Wheel manufacturer should honor the warranty and replace.

You stated you did call the Ford 800# and opened a Case. If you’re not getting satisfaction - I would elevate the concern by calling the Ford 800# again and demanding to speak to a Ford Supervisor. Let that Ford Supervisor know that you will turn to Social Media to demonstrate that Ford does not stand behind its warranty for definitive manufacturing defects.

Yes Ford has that legal rambling provision about “racing” - but even so, the rim should have held up to whatever conditions just as the other (3) remaining rims had no issues. If one rim out of 3 failed, even if heat cycled by internal and external tire temps OR sitting idle near hot brake calipers and rotor, there’s clearly a manufacturing defect in THAT rim. The bubbling of the rim was not caused directly by the Customer taking said vehicle to any track - which mind you IS a vehicle designed AND advertised for track use - which underwent extensive testing of all its parts and functionality before being sold to the public. What if the same Customer drove the car for hours on end across country and the same bubbling occurred from heat cycling?

Keep being persistent, don’t back down and if you can’t get resolution, post your story and images to all of their Social Media outlets.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Here’s a very good thread posted by another GT350R Owner... do read as his experience applies to the thermal barrier damages as well:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/gt350r-carbon-fiber-wheel-repair.120081/

 

[Cobra Jet]

Here’s an interesting article by Hot Rod which goes into details about the manufacturing process of the R Carbon rims (and includes info on how hot the front brakes can get):

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/the...o-make-with-your-new-ford-mustang-gt350r/amp/

 

[Cobra Jet]

Another R carbon failure:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/gt350-r-carbon-fiber-wheel-failure.104830/

 

[SoCalTim]

This thread makes me want to change my imaginary GT500 order from CFTP to Base model, purely on the basis of these potential issues with CF wheel replacement.

 

[shogun32]

I'm curious why CR doesn't offer the rim to the public. That a ceramic coating was necessary to maintain physical integrity in duly experienced high localized heat means:
1. barrel is too damn small for application and clearance
2. an effective brake cooling system is mandatory

Ford picked an inappropriate set of parameters driven no doubt by the desire to brag about having CF wheels and then when their engineering choices are proven to be inadequate refuses to own up to their mistakes. I guess the GT500 coming with active brake cooling is an admission of guilt, how about offering a similar system to 'R' owners for a token amount? This is why manufacturing companies need to be run by engineers and not lawyers and accountants. An engineer wouldn't blink before sending out a new rim and would apologize to boot.

If something like this can mitigate the heat problem (https://www.cooltechllc.com/2015-mustang-gtgt350gt350r/100-gt350350r-brake-deflectors.html) why didn't Ford finish the job? What a disgrace.

I guess anyone going to the track needs to bring along 2 leaf blowers to run for 5-10 minutes after coming back into the pits - ala F1.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Based on what I have researched so far about these Carbon R rims - it seems if that applied thermal barrier to the front rim barrels is in any way nicked, dinged, scraped, scuffed, gouged or has received any type of minor impact damage from either track or daily use - the barrier is breached and allows heat under the barrier, which causes the subsequent failures noted on this site.

If the front barrel thermal barrier on those Carbon R rims is effected adversely by extreme heat (that should withstand such heat cycle events by design specs of the rim) or has been breached by impact damage, both Ford and Carbon Revolution is ignorantly stepping back from honoring or covering under warranty, leaving the Customer with no recourse and unfair out of pocket expenses.

The cracking of the Carbon R rims (quite a few on this site alone and via the web) is also another issue where if these rims are being manufactured to spec and have been rigorously tested, installed onto a vehicle designed and meant to use the rim - these rims should not be failing by way of premature cracking just from being driven on.

IMO, CR should be asking for these damaged rims (both cracked and thermal damage) to be sent back to their facility so that they can perform the necessary inspections and tear downs to determine exact root cause of the failures. If the failures are due to manufacturing deficiencies, then Ford and CR should not only honor all warranty claims but also redesign the rim where those deficiencies are eliminated.

If the GT350R Carbon R rims are failing in such manners (cracking or thermal barrier issues) on a vehicle that was sold to the public and designed to be used as a daily driven vehicle - then this is truly a valid reason to contact the NHTSA as well, because it’s a safety concern to the driver, applicable passengers and the general public. I would recommend GT350R Owners who have experienced a Carbon rim failure to report the failure to NHTSA.

 

[jmn444]

The thermal issue I would agree is a defect, but not the cracking if used on track. I'm pretty sure every wheel will eventually crack with regular track use unless you are slow. Are carbon wheels used in pro racing? i'd be curious to know what a normal life span is on them in that environment....

 

[torque124]

I am also curious how many owners track their car with the carbon wheels, and have not had a failure yet....
I was planning to keep my carbon wheels with the stock tires for track, and get some cheaper replicas for street, where they risk of being curbed or damaged due to potholes... The tracks I have been to are pretty smooth, no change of damaging the wheels.

 

[oldbmwfan]

Don’t shoot the messenger...

To be as crystal clear as possible - the attached is directly from Ford - interpret it as you wish, but pay very close attention to not only how the main body is worded, but also the addendum for “Racing”.

Ford’s Legal Team has worded their position in such a way that if “racing” - in effect can void warranty repair on any part of the vehicle:

The "other abnormal load" phrase would be hard for Ford to defend; a few laps on a private track rental is not a competitive or racing or time trial event. (I can also show I was about 2 seconds/lap slower than Ford's test drivers at the same track while they were giving rides to journalists - which is perhaps embarrassing for me ...)

Appreciate the support. I will keep at it and keep y'all updated.

——

I’m on your side and agree that the bubbled rim should be replaced under the Ford Warranty for defects in the manufacturing process OR due to failure of materials.

In order for the R carbon wheels to even be put on a production vehicle, they have to go under extensive testing not only from a safety aspect, but from a functional aspect. If the wheel was going to crack, “meltdown” or bubble after any track use, the Test Engineers would have experienced those concerns as well and design changes would be implemented.

While carbon fiber is strong, it can have unforeseen flaws during the manufacturing process, especially in between layering - and it can be cracked if mishandled or if it suffers a load bearing event in excess of its intentional design. Therefore in the bubbled rim instance, it’s clearly a defect in materials and Ford or the Wheel manufacturer should honor the warranty and replace.

You stated you did call the Ford 800# and opened a Case. If you’re not getting satisfaction - I would elevate the concern by calling the Ford 800# again and demanding to speak to a Ford Supervisor. Let that Ford Supervisor know that you will turn to Social Media to demonstrate that Ford does not stand behind its warranty for definitive manufacturing defects.

Yes Ford has that legal rambling provision about “racing” - but even so, the rim should have held up to whatever conditions just as the other (3) remaining rims had no issues. If one rim out of 3 failed, even if heat cycled by internal and external tire temps OR sitting idle near hot brake calipers and rotor, there’s clearly a manufacturing defect in THAT rim. The bubbling of the rim was not caused directly by the Customer taking said vehicle to any track - which mind you IS a vehicle designed AND advertised for track use - which underwent extensive testing of all its parts and functionality before being sold to the public. What if the same Customer drove the car for hours on end across country and the same bubbling occurred from heat cycling?

Keep being persistent, don’t back down and if you can’t get resolution, post your story and images to all of their Social Media outlets.

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