Cracked R carbon wheel

[svttim]

Based on what I have researched so far about these Carbon R rims - it seems if that applied thermal barrier to the front rim barrels is in any way nicked, dinged, scraped, scuffed, gouged or has received any type of minor impact damage from either track or daily use - the barrier is breached and allows heat under the barrier, which causes the subsequent failures noted on this site.

If the front barrel thermal barrier on those Carbon R rims is effected adversely by extreme heat (that should withstand such heat cycle events by design specs of the rim) or has been breached by impact damage, both Ford and Carbon Revolution is ignorantly stepping back from honoring or covering under warranty, leaving the Customer with no recourse and unfair out of pocket expenses.

The cracking of the Carbon R rims (quite a few on this site alone and via the web) is also another issue where if these rims are being manufactured to spec and have been rigorously tested, installed onto a vehicle designed and meant to use the rim - these rims should not be failing by way of premature cracking just from being driven on.

IMO, CR should be asking for these damaged rims (both cracked and thermal damage) to be sent back to their facility so that they can perform the necessary inspections and tear downs to determine exact root cause of the failures. If the failures are due to manufacturing deficiencies, then Ford and CR should not only honor all warranty claims but also redesign the rim where those deficiencies are eliminated.

If the GT350R Carbon R rims are failing in such manners (cracking or thermal barrier issues) on a vehicle that was sold to the public and designed to be used as a daily driven vehicle - then this is truly a valid reason to contact the NHTSA as well, because it’s a safety concern to the driver, applicable passengers and the general public. I would recommend GT350R Owners who have experienced a Carbon rim failure to report the failure to NHTSA.

Was recently in a conversation with one of my Ford friends and I quote " Do they really think the CF wheels did not go through the same tests as all our other wheels?"

Sponsored

 

[PP0001]

Was recently in a conversation with one of my Ford friends and I quote " Do they really think the CF wheels did not go through the same tests as all our other wheels?"

Tim, understood but the biggest concern this time around was that the testing on these CF wheels was done by lawyers and accountants and not Ford engineers!

 

[oldbmwfan]

Was recently in a conversation with one of my Ford friends and I quote " Do they really think the CF wheels did not go through the same tests as all our other wheels?"

My understanding is the CF aced all the durability tests, and in fact did so well on the (brutal) curb impact test that it was re-run several more times than usual just to be sure. I think the wheels are great; I'm just royally pissed at Ford for dragging me around on this.

 

[shogun32]

I also find it very interesting that you suggested in another post that the initial decision for Ford to go with CF wheels for the R models was made by lawyers and accountants and not engineers.

perhaps you can brush the chip off your shoulder long enough to actually READ what I wrote?

 

[shogun32]

Are you suggesting that Ferrari engineers also do not know what they are doing by supplying OEM CF wheels on one of their highest end cars?

not at all. Ferrari isn't likely to ignore fundamental errors in design like barrels that are too small and thus get scored by little stones caught on the backside of calipers. And I would surmise they are more tolerant of warranty claims instead of dicking customers over what is clearly a product that has known problems.

Yes there were some failures out there which will happen when ~12,000 OEM wheels have been provided with the R models but the percentages are very small in the overall scheme of things.

Anything over 0.1% failure rate is not "very small" for a supposedly production part.

Do they really think the CF wheels did not go through the same tests as all our other wheels?"

Nobody intimated that testing wasn't done. But it sure looks like Ford chose to ignore certain problems that should have been readily observable. Did they test the rim after damaging the heat shield layer? If they did and the CF didn't de-laminate or bubble, great. Then when a customer shows up with one that did, it should be a no-questions-asked warranty replacement. I'm not invested enough to spend the $80 to buy a copy of the SAE J175 test description. Does it cover the kinds of force impacts one gets from hitting and running over the curbs found at VIR say in Turn 3 before they were somewhat recontoured and ground down? Does it adequately model dropping a wheel into a 1.5" pothole at 70mph? Plenty of AL rims die on those types of encounters, too.

 

[PP0001]

perhaps you can brush the chip off your shoulder long enough to actually READ what I wrote?

I suggest that you take your own advice and reread some of your own posts as it is obvious that you are the one that has a chip on your shoulder with respect to this issue.

BTW, where are you getting your stats with respect to a failure rate of 0.1% for these wheels?

Is this percentage something that you have been able to confirm and if so what is your source or is this just a stab in the dark?

 

[oldbmwfan]

not at all. Ferrari isn't likely to ignore fundamental errors in design like barrels that are too small and thus get scored by little stones caught on the backside of calipers. And I would surmise they are more tolerant of warranty claims instead of dicking customers over what is clearly a product that has known problems.


Anything over 0.1% failure rate is not "very small" for a supposedly production part.


Nobody intimated that testing wasn't done. But it sure looks like Ford chose to ignore certain problems that should have been readily observable. Did they test the rim after damaging the heat shield layer? If they did and the CF didn't de-laminate or bubble, great. Then when a customer shows up with one that did, it should be a no-questions-asked warranty replacement. I'm not invested enough to spend the $80 to buy a copy of the SAE J175 test description. Does it cover the kinds of force impacts one gets from hitting and running over the curbs found at VIR say in Turn 3 before they were somewhat recontoured and ground down? Does it adequately model dropping a wheel into a 1.5" pothole at 70mph? Plenty of AL rims die on those types of encounters, too.

Well, I know the MagneRide is tuned to reduce compression damping rate on an unloaded (inside) wheel specifically to reduce the intensity of curb impacts on track, so that would tell me the CF wheels hit a lot of curbs in testing. (And the non-R alloy wheels, also)

 

[PP0001]

My understanding is the CF aced all the durability tests, and in fact did so well on the (brutal) curb impact test that it was re-run several more times than usual just to be sure. I think the wheels are great; I'm just royally pissed at Ford for dragging me around on this.

Fully understand your frustration and based on the information that you have provided this is totally uncalled for.

Have you been able to make some progress of late and if not will you be escalating this issue to a higher level as something does not seem right here?

 

[shogun32]

BTW, where are you getting your stats with respect to a failure rate of 0.1% for these wheels?

*sigh*

Anything over 0.1% failure rate is not "very small" for a supposedly production part.

How the hell do you read into that statement that I'm asserting these CR wheels are failing at 0.1% rate? READ what I write, not what you want to think I said.

A 1/1000 failure on a production part is pretty damn lousy - that's 12 failed wheels across 12,000 wheels shipped to date. No, I don't have access to Ford Warranty claims but I have a sneaking suspicion there have been WAY more than 12 rims replaced to date. Heck, you could probably find a dozen reports of stone-damaged barrels on this site alone, not to mention bubbled, cracked and other failure modes.

Sites like this have huge selection bias, and despite every dog having a cell phone, the reports of failure posted on FB and ilk is a small fraction of actual.

 

[PP0001]

*sigh*

How the hell do you read into that statement that I'm asserting these CR wheels are failing at 0.1% rate? READ what I write, not what you want to think I said.

A 1/1000 failure on a production part is pretty damn lousy - that's 12 failed wheels across 12,000 wheels shipped to date. No, I don't have access to Ford Warranty claims but I have a sneaking suspicion there have been WAY more than 12 rims replaced to date. Heck, you could probably find a dozen reports of stone-damaged barrels on this site alone, not to mention bubbled, cracked and other failure modes.

Sites like this have huge selection bias, and despite every dog having a cell phone, the reports of failure posted on FB and ilk is a small fraction of actual.

Now it is down to your sneaking suspicion that there have been Way more than 12 rims replaced to date?

With respect to a failure rate for 1 out of 1000 wheels being unacceptable from your standpoint I am not sure what your expectations are but suggest that they are unrealistic.

Have you ever owned an R model or been around many of us that actually own these vehicles with respect to what these HP Mustangs get put through on the street and also on and off a road course?

It is obvious that you feel that driver error and/or negligence never enters into any of this and that the complete onus is relegated only to CR and to Ford regardless of the any of the circumstances.

In the case of @oldbmwfan I am suggesting that he certainly has a legitimate case in order to be compensated by Ford and wish him the best going forward.

Having been around for a very long time and seeing what can happen on the street and at various road courses certainly driver error and negligence certainly has to be considered thus Ford has declined some claims with good reasoning.

With respect to Ford Warranty Claims for the CF wheels and that in your opinion there have been Way more than 12 rims replaced to date are you suggesting that Ford has not honored any claims at all to date and that they have completely walked away from this issue?

 

[oldbmwfan]

Fully understand your frustration and based on the information that you have provided this is totally uncalled for.

Have you been able to make some progress of late and if not will you be escalating this issue to a higher level as something does not seem right here?

The field service engineer from the warranty department is at the dealer tomorrow. Will see if they change their tune when directly observing the wheel vs. looking at a couple photos remotely. This is probably my last chance to get resolution directly through Ford Warranty, after that it's up the CS chain again and, in parallel, getting my friend in FP to tell me where to go to make more noise. I'll keep this thread updated.

 

[MikeR397]

The wheel warranty denied my cracked carbon wheel claim bc “the tire tread is under 3/32”. I expected this issue, and this is what the contract says (even though it makes ZERO sense for grounds to deny a crack like this based on tire tread), so When I bought the warranty I had the dealer financial services manager contact the warranty company directly, with my vin, and he confirmed to me in writing (which I have) that bc the R, and my vin specifically, comes with tires less than 3/32 new (in any spot, outside groove) I will have coverage on both tire and wheel “as long as threads are not showing”. Have emails of this, and just forwarded them to my service manager to cram down the warranty company’s throat.

Here is a pic of The rear tire, which is heat cycled out but plenty of rubber and far from chording. View attachment 394919

 

[PP0001]

The wheel warranty denied my cracked carbon wheel claim bc “the tire tread is under 3/32”. I expected this issue, and this is what the contract says (even though it makes ZERO sense for grounds to deny a crack like this based on tire tread), so When I bought the warranty I had the dealer financial services manager contact the warranty company directly, with my vin, and he confirmed to me in writing (which I have) that bc the R, and my vin specifically, comes with tires less than 3/32 new (in any spot, outside groove) I will have coverage on both tire and wheel “as long as threads are not showing”. Have emails of this, and just forwarded them to my service manager to cram down the warranty company’s throat.

Here is a pic of The rear tire, which is heat cycled out but plenty of rubber and far from chording. View attachment 394919

Certainly terrific forward thinking on your part with respect to tire tread depth on your R as not many people would have taken this approach but based on how ignorant most of the general public is regarding OEM tread depth of lack thereof on our R models that was a great call.

Suggest that you have nothing to be concerned with based on your proactive approach.

 

[oldbmwfan]

That is impressive covering of bases. Well done.

 

[oldbmwfan]

Update on my end. Field warranty engineer, guy by the name of Mike, said "impact damage, not covered under vehicle warranty." Of course, the wheel and tire warranty company is saying "not impact damage; that's a manufacturing defect and therefore not covered under the road hazard warranty." So I have two warranties with two groups pointing fingers at each other, and I'm holding the bag. Time to escalate in other ways, I guess. Not happy at all, and if I had been considering a 500 or a new Fiesta ST (which I had), I am not now.

Sponsored