Coolant Flush Saga

[Bullitt0819]

I know this topic has been directly or tangentially covered in other threads, but I think I might have something substantive to add.

Disclaimer: I usually maintain my own vehicles (5, not counting tractors, quads, etc.), but with the dealer's 'free oil changes for life' I decided to cede most maintenance of my '19 Bullitt to the dealer.

At approx. 30K miles and 5 years, I decided my car could use a fluid flush/change. The dealer initially drained and replaced 1g (and charged an apparent hour's labor). When I took the car in, it had the expected 'orange' coolant, and I expected it would come back with the currently spec'd 'yellow.' When I got the car back the coolant was still orange/red--though diluted--so I queried (harassed) the dealer. They agreed to try a more comprehensive approach:

It looks to me they made a genuine attempt to drain as much coolant as possible, but still only drained 1.5g of the engine's nominal 3.5g capacity. Without a block drain, this may be the best that can be done short of a tear-down.

Anybody know how to get more coolant out, or do we have to do what's usually done with automatic transmissions (partial drains and fills)? As for the 'PREMIUM COOLANT PROTECTION' which, to my knowledge Ford knows nothing about, I queried them on that on got a 'It's a dealer addition;' guess they can't slap undercoating on the car unrequested anymore.

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[Crew4991]

May I ask how much the dealer charged you for the free oil changes for life package?
I do all my own maintenance but am genuinely curious how much something like that costs.

As for the coolant removal, sadly I can't add much to that discussion.
Personally I would just leave it the way it is now (mixed old & new coolant) and then change it again at a sooner interval.

 

[MiamiGT350]

You aren't going to get 100% of the old fluid out, but...

Generally I have seen that they remove the connection at the base of the radiator, draining as much as possible. Then refill with dilluted water, run engine briefly, and drain again. Then fill with new coolant.

I can't speak to how the dealer performed the flush, but I would think it wouldn't come back an "old" color or dilluted. That would make me suspect they didn't really perform the maintenance.

 

[Skye]

From their notes, I am curious why they used a vacuum to remove fluid? While that could evacuate some, the system would be closed? Like sucking on the bottom of a can with a straw.

IDK if removing the radiator cap and opening the petcock would remove more still, but gravity draining is the Ford process. Vacuum is later used to help remove any air pockets.

"303-03B Engine Cooling - 5.0L 32V Ti-VCT (359kW/486PS) (WU)/5.0L Ti-VCT V8
2022-2023 Mustang V8 [I understand yours is a 2019].

NOTE: During normal vehicle operation, Motorcraft® Orange Antifreeze/Coolant may change color from orange to pink or light red. As long as the engine coolant is clear and uncontaminated, this color change does not indicate the engine coolant has degraded nor does it require the engine coolant to be drained, the system to be flushed, or the engine coolant to be
replaced.

NOTE: Less than 80% of coolant capacity can be recovered with the engine in the vehicle. Dirty, rusty or contaminated coolant requires replacement.

Recommended coolant concentration is 48/52 to 50/50 engine coolant to distilled water (freeze protection -34˚C to -37˚C [-30˚F to -34˚F]).

For extremely cold climates (less than -37˚C [-34˚F]):
It may be necessary to increase the coolant concentration above 50%.
NEVER increase the coolant concentration above 60%.

For extremely hot climates:
It is still necessary to maintain the coolant concentration above 40%.
NEVER decrease the coolant concentration below 40%."

In the procedure referenced above...

1. Remove radiator cap from radiator pressure bottle.
2. Open radiator petcock from below.
3. Drain as much coolant as possible.
4. Close drain and refill.
5. Attach vacuum to radiator pressure bottle.
6. Later, run engine to remove any further air pockets.

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/resources/quickreferencecharts

"DY / O = Either yellow-colored engine coolant approved to Ford specification WSS-M97B57-A1 or WSS-M97B57-A2 (Motorcraft® Yellow Antifreeze/Coolant), orange-colored engine coolant approved to Ford specification WSS-M97B44-D or WSS-M97B44-D2 (Motorcraft® Orange Antifreeze/Coolant), or a combination of both engine coolants"

Regarding coolant, it reads Orange or Yellow are both acceptable. The two combined could make the fluid appear red.

All ^ that is drain and fill. There is a separate procedure to flush the system, if needed or requested.

 

[Bullitt0819]

May I ask how much the dealer charged you for the free oil changes for life package?
I do all my own maintenance but am genuinely curious how much something like that costs.

As for the coolant removal, sadly I can't add much to that discussion.
Personally I would just leave it the way it is now (mixed old & new coolant) and then change it again at a sooner interval.

The 'free oil changes for life' have, indeed, been completely free of charge (a cynic would say the cost is buried in the invoice, which is likely true). My wife gets them as well for her Fusion bought at the same dealer. They say every 5mos./5K miles max, which I don't usually do anyway (I'll probably do once/yr after doing more frequently when the car was new). I did all the maintenance on my '08 Bullitt, but properly disposing of 10qts of oil at every change is burdensome (along with 4 other cars, 2 tractors, gator, quad, zero-turn and several ICE yard appliances).

Yes, I think draining and refilling the rad every few years is the best we can do. Even my old British sports cars, with block drains, leave a half-gallon in their engines (out of 2.5g capacity). My concern was mixing different 'colors;' I have heard of instances where mixing different/incorrect anti-freezes have caused issues.

 

[Bullitt0819]

From their notes, I am curious why they used a vacuum to remove fluid? While that could evacuate some, the system would be closed? Like sucking on the bottom of a can with a straw.

...

I think, possibly, the vacuum is used to bleed (aka 'burp') the cooling system. I have a 2000 Lincoln LS--bought at the same dealership--and, when I've changed its coolant there is a process to eliminate a bubble of air that forms at the highest point in the engine; since the fop of the radiator is lower than the high point of the cooling system there is a bleed valve to vent the air (with the engine running).

To do a proper 'flush,' in my experience, you have to remove the thermostat and force water under pressure through the system (and add 'radiator flush' snake oil if you like). I think this might be a real PITA with a Coyote.

 

[ORRadtech]

My concern was mixing different 'colors;' I have heard of instances where mixing different/incorrect anti-freezes have caused issues.

While it's true that mixing coolant colors can be a very bad idea, the new Ford yellow is backward compatible to the orange and safe to mix. Unless you can find some new old stock somewhere you can't even get the orange anymore.

 

[Bullitt0819]

FYI, the product# for the 'yellow' premix is VC 13DL G. Ordinarily, since premix is about the same price as concentrate I'd buy the concentrate (distilled water is cheap). But, I haven't found 'yellow' as a concentrate.

Side note: I'd actually gotten the 'flush' back in October, but just recently noticed the overflow (degas?) bottle was below MAX, so bought the premix to top it up. The dealer said they don't fill to MAX because it'll overflow (FWIW).

 

[Snakebyte]

While it's true that mixing coolant colors can be a very bad idea, the new Ford yellow is backward compatible to the orange and safe to mix. Unless you can find some new old stock somewhere you can't even get the orange anymore.

Good point @ORRadtech. Here's a great webpage explaining color differences and background behind them.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/article...to-know-about-ford-motorcraft-yellow-coolant/

 

[S550HPP]

Dealer scam they tried same thing on my brake fluid flush just sucking out the reservoir...I went back and they flushed it all.

 

[SheepDog]

A complete coolant exchange is possible, with a coolant flush machine. You also need to remove the thermostat for best results. Any decent shop should have one of these, or similar.

Mahle MCX-2F Multi-Coolant System Fluid Exchanger at ToolPan.com

 

[lo-fi]

A complete coolant exchange is possible, with a coolant flush machine. You also need to remove the thermostat for best results. Any decent shop should have one of these, or similar.

Mahle MCX-2F Multi-Coolant System Fluid Exchanger at ToolPan.com

Ordered two (in case one breaks).

I'm lying..

 

[SheepDog]

Ordered two (in case one breaks).

I'm lying..

good plan

 

[ice445]

It took me 3 drains and fills to get it to look yellow lol

 

[bankyf]

Here was my procedure to completely switch colors. It was messy and time consuming, but it worked well.
Make sure you have 10+ gallons of distilled water, a refractometer, and optionally a vacuum filler on hand.
-Start the car, allow it to warm up to full operating temperature and then cut it off.
-Remove small return hose from coolant tank. I extended the hose to a bucket.
-Restart car. The small return hose will start filling the bucket and the reservoir will start dropping. Continue adding distilled water to the reservoir to keep it topped off until there is completely clear water running out of the small hose. This will likely take at least 10 gallons of distilled to completely flush the old mixture out. You should have more than that on hand as you don't want to run out in the middle of the process. Cut the car off once it's running out clear.
- At this point your system will be full of distilled water. After it cools down, open the drain in the radiotor and drain as much out as you can. Make sure the reservoir empties out. I also pulled some hoses just to try to get everything I could out of the system.
- Full the system back up with straight concentrated coolant. I prefer to vacuum fill.
-Start the car back up and allow it to fully warm up and run for an additional 15-20 minutes.
-Test the coolant with the refractometer. If you hit your goal, you are done. If not, drain some of the mixture out of the radiator and replace with straight coolant again.

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