Coolant Flush Saga

[Keeffa]

I know this topic has been directly or tangentially covered in other threads, but I think I might have something substantive to add.

Disclaimer: I usually maintain my own vehicles (5, not counting tractors, quads, etc.), but with the dealer's 'free oil changes for life' I decided to cede most maintenance of my '19 Bullitt to the dealer.

At approx. 30K miles and 5 years, I decided my car could use a fluid flush/change. The dealer initially drained and replaced 1g (and charged an apparent hour's labor). When I took the car in, it had the expected 'orange' coolant, and I expected it would come back with the currently spec'd 'yellow.' When I got the car back the coolant was still orange/red--though diluted--so I queried (harassed) the dealer. They agreed to try a more comprehensive approach:

It looks to me they made a genuine attempt to drain as much coolant as possible, but still only drained 1.5g of the engine's nominal 3.5g capacity. Without a block drain, this may be the best that can be done short of a tear-down.

Anybody know how to get more coolant out, or do we have to do what's usually done with automatic transmissions (partial drains and fills)? As for the 'PREMIUM COOLANT PROTECTION' which, to my knowledge Ford knows nothing about, I queried them on that on got a 'It's a dealer addition;' guess they can't slap undercoating on the car unrequested anymore.

I just drain it at the radiator drain tap and use compressor to blow air through the reservoir, hold a rag over the air blower blow out as much as will come. Take reservoir off and clean it out. I refilled with about 7 litres of yellow coolant, it still looks a little orange though. Don't worry it'll be fine.

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[Garfy]

Finally followed-up on this link; pretty much explains it all. Bear with me--I'm a chemistry nerd--but the 'transition' appears to be from silicate-based to phosphate-based corrosion protection (and heat transfer); I'm going to assume all of them are still glycol-based for actual freeze protection (ethylene for 'typical,' propylene for 'organic,' i.e. 'dog-safe'). 'OAT' seems like a reversion; IIRC the corrosion protection in older formulas was partly oxalic acid (found in rhubarb).

The gist is that owners of pre-2020 'Stangs should, when practical, transition from the orange to the yellow AF. In my case, I will, when I get a chance, drain the rad and add a gallon or so of pre-mix (I'll mix my own) so over a few years I'll have mostly yellow (the hassle, as usual, is disposing of the old fluid). I'm glad our cars don't have internal water pumps--they don't do they?--like some of the truck engines. Between that and spark plugs that break in two it seems some of the Ford truck engines are a PITA.

I believe the "two-piece" plugs that broke when removing were only on the 3-valve Triton engines; current F-150s are Coyotes. Coyote water pumps are easily replaced as they are "external" unlike some 3.5L engines in the Flex/Edge that were driven by the timing chain. I did check once and seems the 3.5L in the F-series has an external type pump so clearly different 3.5 from the Flex/Edge.

 

[ORRadtech]

I believe the "two-piece" plugs that broke when removing were only on the 3-valve Triton engines; current F-150s are Coyotes. Coyote water pumps are easily replaced as they are "external" unlike some 3.5L engines in the Flex/Edge that were driven by the timing chain. I did check once and seems the 3.5L in the F-series has an external type pump so clearly different 3.5 from the Flex/Edge.

You're correct. The water pump on the 3.5 Edge (turbo and non) is internal. That's because it is transverse mounted and they needed the extra space.
And it's not like that's the only engine that has an internal water pump or that it's a new thing. Our Ecoboost Mustangs have internal pumps. Back in the early 2000's my '98 Dodge Neon blew a water pump. It was internal and had to be replaced through the drivers side wheel well. That job took me 4 days of working evenings.

 

[Bullitt0819]

I believe the "two-piece" plugs that broke when removing were only on the 3-valve Triton engines; current F-150s are Coyotes. Coyote water pumps are easily replaced as they are "external" unlike some 3.5L engines in the Flex/Edge that were driven by the timing chain. I did check once and seems the 3.5L in the F-series has an external type pump so clearly different 3.5 from the Flex/Edge.

Yep; 5.4L IIRC. If you have to replace a water pump, you'll get a coolant flush.

I think Coyote oil pumps are 'internal'--as opposed to being in the sump--and cam or crank driven, no?

 

[S550HPP]

I'm about due for one and will pay for the coolant flush machine service because I don't want to touch or breath the highly toxic antifreeze plus the amount of time and steps, as well as jugs and distilled water and disposal means even if they charge me $300 it's a great deal haha.

 

[Garfy]

You're correct. The water pump on the 3.5 Edge (turbo and non) is internal. That's because it is transverse mounted and they needed the extra space.
And it's not like that's the only engine that has an internal water pump or that it's a new thing. Our Ecoboost Mustangs have internal pumps. Back in the early 2000's my '98 Dodge Neon blew a water pump. It was internal and had to be replaced through the drivers side wheel well. That job took me 4 days of working evenings.

Wow, didn't know the Ecoboost 2.3 had an internal w/pump. Glad I bought the GT (besides, the 5.0 sounds much better than the EB).

 

[lo-fi]

Well don't worry the GT gets an internal to the transmission clutch slave cylinder. Man I hate that design.

 

[Boosted Pony]

Vacuum is the best way to change coolant and is required on many if not most new vehicles today to eliminate air pockets. I have a Snap on vacuum flush system, what you do is drain the coolant as normal via petcock valve or removing the lower radiator hose or both to get the majority of the Coolant out, reinstall the hose and close the petcock, hook up the Snap on vacuum tool it has a 5 foot long hose that you run to a bucket or drain pan so when you pull a vacuum it will put out remaining coolant in the system, the radiator hoses will collapse due to the vacuum, you do not have to remove the thermostat, once you have 25 PSI vacuum built up you have a second hose that you place into a bucket with fresh coolant slowly open the valve to start to pull the coolant from the bucket as soon as you see the coolant reach the aluminum valve shut the vale back off and repeat the vacuum phase again to remove the air that entered the system from purging the coolant fill line, once vacuum is back to 25 PSI again you can now open the fresh coolant line again and the system will fill up without any air pockets. Once the system has completed filling close the lever for the coolant side and remove. You will have to top off the radiator or coolant tank but there will not be any air in the coolant system.

That was just a quick description on how a good vacuum fill system will work.

 

[GTP]

Cool!
So all I have to do is source the proper adapters to use my big shop vac.

 

[Bullitt0819]

Vacuum is the best way to change coolant and is required on many if not most new

...

I'm looking into the (recommended) fill systems. I can't tell how the vacuum is to be sourced, will hand pump (MityVac, etc.) do the job? All I can see is a small valve on the fill rig.

 

[S550HPP]

As a shop owner with a similar machine(the BG version), it isn't as effective at getting every bit of the old coolant as you would hope(or they advertise). It will significantly dilute, but just not great for a color change unless you run a significant amount of coolant through it.

Sound like Kinda the ATF machines need to run 40+ quarts through them before getting to perfectly clean fluid. Is it better to just run water until clean then drain and fill to get the mix ratio?

 

[Boosted Pony]

I'm looking into the (recommended) fill systems. I can't tell how the vacuum is to be sourced, will hand pump (MityVac, etc.) do the job? All I can see is a small valve on the fill rig.

The Snap on vacuum fill system I have uses air from a compressor to create the vacuum.

 

[bankyf]

Sound like Kinda the ATF machines need to run 40+ quarts through them before getting to perfectly clean fluid. Is it better to just run water until clean then drain and fill to get the mix ratio?

That’s how I do my own car. It’s not practical to do the average customer car that way though.

 

[Mike Pfeifer]

I'm looking into the (recommended) fill systems. I can't tell how the vacuum is to be sourced, will hand pump (MityVac, etc.) do the job? All I can see is a small valve on the fill rig.

It needs shop air from a compressor.

 

[nando19]

I just had my coolant flushed out and it still had the red fluid. I asked the advisor beforehand if it will have the yellow fluid which he said it would. But after the job was done that was not the case.
I questioned him about it and apparently the master tech said Shelby’s need the red fluid. The yellow fluid is not efficient enough to protect these engines. And apparently they had one gallon left with red fluid that they used. IMO it should take more than that to flush it out.
I have another appointment this Thursday to talk to the tech about it. My coolant still smells a little fishy which was the reason I wanted it flushed out. I did check the PH balance which is a 9. Sadly I didn’t check it before.

2017 GT350

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