Buyback GT350Rs

[Tomster]

Thanks for the offer!

Hopefully I'll get seat time. We will see. I took a photo of my track attack swag to show the guy I have owned a GT350 before and that I should be able to "handle" it, in case he uses that argument on me. Driving out there will be worth it to me just to sit in the Recaros and remind myself of what they are like. I remember them not bothering me at the track attack, but the seats in the track attack cars have seen a lot of use.

likewise, come down to the Daytona event on December 6-8.

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[Hack]

likewise, come down to the Daytona event on December 6-8.

Thanks Tom!

So, the car was at White Bear Lincoln. They have 4 Shelbys - a mix of GT350s and Rs. I only looked at the black one.
https://www.whitebearlincoln.com/us...cted=inventory-listing1-facet-anchor-model-49

I got some seat time in their black GT350R. Reaffirmed that the Recaros definitely aren't for me. And the car didn't thrill me.

It had the original engine replaced. The OASIS report said that the piston rings in the original engine were out of round. Surprising as I don't think I've seen so much dealer diagnosis in the past. It says they called the hotline, pulled the oil pan, pulled valve covers and then looked into the chambers. I suppose it's possible the rings got deformed when they were installed on the pistons. It makes sense as a source/cause of oil consumption.

I think the Cup 2s were worn out as they didn't seem as sticky as I expected. It was mid 80s when I drove the car, so the road surface was plenty warm enough. Anyway, I would stay away from the car I drove. The engine seemed weak and it had a dent in the middle of the dash. A big dent that cracked the finish. I'm a little surprised they didn't replace the dash, since it still has some of the 3/36 in place (warranty start date was June 23, 2017). Maybe damage like that isn't covered.

The sales guy said that on buy back cars they have whatever is left of the 3/36, the original 5/60 is still in place and then there is also a 1 year bumper to bumper. I didn't get that in writing, but I believe it is true.

On the bright side, the CF rims and spoiler looked perfect on the car. They are in great shape.

And they want about $15 - 20K more than I would pay for that car. I made them an offer that I thought was more along the lines of what I would pay for a car like that and they acted outraged. Who knows, maybe someone will pay the $61k they are asking for it.

 

[Alain]

no one will pay that much for that car. I hope you left your phone number, you might get a phone call from them in a couple of days.

 

[svassh]

What was wrong with the white one, looks like a better deal?

 

[Hack]

no one will pay that much for that car. I hope you left your phone number, you might get a phone call from them in a couple of days.

He has my email and phone number, but I think that particular car is a hard pass for me. I might consider a buyback regular GT350 if the price was right and there was still plenty of warranty, but I would rather overpay for a car that is in great shape rather than saving and having a car with a big dent in the dash and who knows what else wrong with it.

What was wrong with the white one, looks like a better deal?

I just don't like white with blue stripes. Those colors are not for me. That might be why they had a lower price on it, not sure.

 

[Tomster]

What was wrong with the white one, looks like a better deal?

Agree. I would look into that white one. Classic Shelby colors. As much as the purist I am, I would buy it despite a new engine as long as the price was right. I cringe at the thought of a non numbers matching R however.

 

[jvandy50]

I (probably foolishly) tend to not worry too much about the future value of a car and mostly get wrapped up in whether I'm going to be happy with it. But having virtually everyone on the board say it's too much money is very helpful.

i hear ya, and am pretty similar. mainly pay attention to it because i don’t want to be upside down in one too bad(i would not buy a corvette brand new just to watch them sell for 18k off later in the same model year).

i definitely use my cars/jeep for what they’re meant to do and am not saving it in a time capsule. i don’t neglect them, but we have fun together.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Thanks Tom!

So, the car was at White Bear Lincoln. They have 4 Shelbys - a mix of GT350s and Rs. I only looked at the black one.
https://www.whitebearlincoln.com/us...cted=inventory-listing1-facet-anchor-model-49

I got some seat time in their black GT350R. Reaffirmed that the Recaros definitely aren't for me. And the car didn't thrill me.

It had the original engine replaced. The OASIS report said that the piston rings in the original engine were out of round. Surprising as I don't think I've seen so much dealer diagnosis in the past. It says they called the hotline, pulled the oil pan, pulled valve covers and then looked into the chambers. I suppose it's possible the rings got deformed when they were installed on the pistons. It makes sense as a source/cause of oil consumption.

I think the Cup 2s were worn out as they didn't seem as sticky as I expected. It was mid 80s when I drove the car, so the road surface was plenty warm enough. Anyway, I would stay away from the car I drove. The engine seemed weak and it had a dent in the middle of the dash. A big dent that cracked the finish. I'm a little surprised they didn't replace the dash, since it still has some of the 3/36 in place (warranty start date was June 23, 2017). Maybe damage like that isn't covered.

The sales guy said that on buy back cars they have whatever is left of the 3/36, the original 5/60 is still in place and then there is also a 1 year bumper to bumper. I didn't get that in writing, but I believe it is true.

On the bright side, the CF rims and spoiler looked perfect on the car. They are in great shape.

And they want about $15 - 20K more than I would pay for that car. I made them an offer that I thought was more along the lines of what I would pay for a car like that and they acted outraged. Who knows, maybe someone will pay the $61k they are asking for it.

The dent in the dash is most likely from the prior Owner beating the shit out of it after spending major $$$$ for an R and then engine shits the bed.


——

As for Buy Backs:
Any Buy Back has the title (and VIN) branded as a Lemon, period. There is no way around that branding. If the VIN is looked up at a Ford Dealer it shows it’s flagged as a Lemon. If there is a future potential buyer for that car and he/she runs any type of “VIN report” from “XYZ” reporting agency, it’s flagged as a Lemon. Want to trade it in, yep it’s still a Lemon. Even for financing and insurance, the VIN is a known Lemon.

Can a Lemon be decent? Sure, some can - but others even after being fixed can still haunt the new owner with possible issues that might not have been fully resolved. Sure a trans, rear or engine replacement may be a permanent fix - but many Lemons are still Lemons even after supposedly being fixed.

If someone is looking for a vehicle and does not want to lay down “new car money” and take a huge depreciation hit with a new car, a Lemon could be an option IF the buyer doesn’t give a rats ass about the VIN or Title being branded and doesn’t care about future resale problems.

Ford isn’t losing money on any Buy Back...

As for the Warranty - the remainder of the 3/36 and 5/60 is correct. The “12k/12mo” that is offered with any Ford Lemon runs concurrently with any remaining factory 3/36, it’s NOT in additional to... So if there is really no benefit to the Sales Force telling you - “it also has a 12/12”....

As for that Dealer pricing - for a known branded Lemon - they’re crazy. The only type of person who will pay their price is someone who does not know anything about Shelby’s when it comes to “numbers matching” (be it an R, GT350 or GT500) AND the effects of what a branded Title will have for future resale.

Why would anyone pay say $60k for an R that no longer has a numbers matching drivetrain and is VIN branded a Lemon - when there’s plenty of others with their original drivetrain and clear title for the same money?

I get that it’s an R, I get that it was produced in limited numbers - but guess what, that does not change the fact that it’s a vehicle with a branded title.

 

[PP0001]

The dent in the dash is most likely from the prior Owner beating the shit out of it after spending major $$$$ for an R and then engine shits the bed.


——

As for Buy Backs:
Any Buy Back has the title (and VIN) branded as a Lemon, period. There is no way around that branding. If the VIN is looked up at a Ford Dealer it shows it’s flagged as a Lemon. If there is a future potential buyer for that car and he/she runs any type of “VIN report” from “XYZ” reporting agency, it’s flagged as a Lemon. Want to trade it in, yep it’s still a Lemon. Even for financing and insurance, the VIN is a known Lemon.

Can a Lemon be decent? Sure, some can - but others even after being fixed can still haunt the new owner with possible issues that might not have been fully resolved. Sure a trans, rear or engine replacement may be a permanent fix - but many Lemons are still Lemons even after supposedly being fixed.

If someone is looking for a vehicle and does not want to lay down “new car money” and take a huge depreciation hit with a new car, a Lemon could be an option IF the buyer doesn’t give a rats ass about the VIN or Title being branded and doesn’t care about future resale problems.

Ford isn’t losing money on any Buy Back...

As for the Warranty - the remainder of the 3/36 and 5/60 is correct. The “12k/12mo” that is offered with any Ford Lemon runs concurrently with any remaining factory 3/36, it’s NOT in additional to... So if there is really no benefit to the Sales Force telling you - “it also has a 12/12”....

As for that Dealer pricing - for a known branded Lemon - they’re crazy. The only type of person who will pay their price is someone who does not know anything about Shelby’s when it comes to “numbers matching” (be it an R, GT350 or GT500) AND the effects of what a branded Title will have for future resale.

Why would anyone pay say $60k for an R that no longer has a numbers matching drivetrain and is VIN branded a Lemon - when there’s plenty of others with their original drivetrain and clear title for the same money?

I get that it’s an R, I get that it was produced in limited numbers - but guess what, that does not change the fact that it’s a vehicle with a branded title.

Based your above post it is a no brainer to purchase a brand new 2019 R model for ~$67,000 instead of $60,000 for a used, abused, much aligned and non numbers matching vehicle that at some point will be traded in or resold in some fashion at a very low selling price.

 

[orangegrower]

I find it hard to understand that all 4 of those GT350 are Ford buyback cars. That dealership must be Fords dumping ground.

 

[RJay]

The dent in the dash is most likely from the prior Owner beating the shit out of it after spending major $$$$ for an R and then engine shits the bed.

That made me spit coffee - now my keyboard is upside down and I'm hoping it dries with no damage...

 

[Cobra Jet]

I find it hard to understand that all 4 of those GT350 are Ford buyback cars. That dealership must be Fords dumping ground.

This may help to understand how a Dealership ends up with Buy Backs. I posted this in another thread regarding similar topic.

If a Ford Buy Back occurs in a State where a vehicle and its title are branded a Lemon, some States will not allow the resale of a Lemon by law. Ford’s way around this is to pick up the vehicle, move it to a State where it can be resold, repair it and throw it on a Ford Dealer lot. After a Lemon is taken back, it could go to auction, but must be bought by a buyer from a different State IF it cannot be sold in a State that prohibits the sale or resale of a Lemon’d vehicle.

For those that don’t know, Ford also gives the Dealership who is facilitating the initial Lemon transaction money for taking the collateral back.

Again, Ford is not loosing money on RAV Buy Backs.

 

[PP0001]

I find it hard to understand that all 4 of those GT350 are Ford buyback cars. That dealership must be Fords dumping ground.

No dumping ground for Ford at all as this dealership knew exactly what they were doing when they bought these cars as they all went to auction and probably sold through a Manheim Auto Auction location somewhere in America with this dealership being the high bidder.

When I was able to locate the first two 2012 Pilot Production Boss 302's built back in October 2010 they also were consigned through Ford's contracted and favorite auction house namely Manheim Auto Auctions and ended up at a Ford dealership in South Carolina and were purchased by the same dealership some ~6 months apart from Manheim in the Detroit area.

PP0001 was a Black/Red Laguna Seca and PP0002 was a Performance White 4 seat Boss 302.

You can bet that this dealership did not pay much for these cars and are trying to make a huge profit from some unsuspecting poor soul.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Based your above post it is a no brainer to purchase a brand new 2019 R model for ~$67,000 instead of $60,000 for a used, abused, much aligned and non numbers matching vehicle that at some point will be traded in or resold in some fashion at a very low selling price.

Well... depends on the Buyer.

As I said previously, if it’s a non-schooled Buyer OR one who is just seeking a nice vehicle for less money than brand new (or MSRP+crazy ADM fees), then sure any Lemon, not just Ford, but any Lemon could be a deal for THAT type of Buyer.

Let’s face it, vehicles like the GT350, GT350R and GT500 are for a niche buyer and market segment. People who buy these vehicles are Mustang/Shelby Enthusiasts and “know” them. They are seeking such a vehicle not only for the branding, but major fun factor, “collector” factor, “investment” factor and seek paperwork + “numbers matching”. With that mindset, most of these buyers (owners) know that a numbers matching Shelby with heritage, clear title, low production number, low assigned “As Built” number and certain combo of options will appease a future buyer AND possibly net the seller some decent pocket money.

Is $60k for a Lemon’d GT350R a good deal? Maybe to some, but if it were me as a potential buyer, I would pass on it and wouldn’t think twice about it - not just from the aspect that it’s now a non-numbers matching Shelby, but because it is a Lemon and $60k just isn’t any type of “deal” for a branded title.

If the selling Dealer would take $50k cash - THAT would be a deal. Why? Because the vehicle VIN is flagged for the life of that vehicle and $50k is very fair considering future resale is already in the shitter. I mean, does anyone think that a true Shelby Enthusiast is going to plunk down $60k on a branded VIN and mothball it and NEVER resell it? C’mon, you’re kidding yourselves.... even at $50k or say $55k it’s a risk, because if the owner were to sell it down the road they might be lucky to break even.

Remember everyone is glued to their devices and the world is run by the internet+social media today. Everyone researches their purchases via googling, forums, vehicle reports and is able to find out if a vehicle is clear or has bad history. It’s not the 60’s/70’s anymore where someone could pass off a Shelby as being original but come to find out it was an original T-code... LMAO.

If someone is seeking a track car - www.copart.com is the place to look... buyers can get some good deals on salvage vehicles that can be gutted and made into track cars with sometimes minimal efforts for far less than a $60k Lemon.

 

[Hack]

Why would anyone pay say $60k for an R that no longer has a numbers matching drivetrain and is VIN branded a Lemon - when there’s plenty of others with their original drivetrain and clear title for the same money?

I get that it’s an R, I get that it was produced in limited numbers - but guess what, that does not change the fact that it’s a vehicle with a branded title.

I looked on KBB and it said $45-49k for a 2017 R - buying from a dealer. Now that would be a "regular" R, not a buy back. I think the value of a car like that is low here in MN this time of year because winter is coming soon and there might only be a few more weeks left where a car with Cup 2s can be rolled around outside. It was mid 80s on Monday and today it was 50 and rainy. We can get snow at any time, or the weather could be nice for the next couple months. You never know around here. I think this car is worth 35-40 in MN right now. They will probably get someone to pay more than that, but I wouldn't buy it for $40k. I have a feeling there's something wrong with the engine in the car. Maybe the original owner did something to it, I don't know. Like I said before, the engine really seemed weak to me. I realize it still has the powertrain warranty for a few years, but why would I want to buy something assuming the engine will be replaced?

I find it hard to understand that all 4 of those GT350 are Ford buyback cars. That dealership must be Fords dumping ground.

This dealer buys lots of Ford Performance cars that are buy backs. They have Focus RS, ST, Fiesta ST, Boss Mustangs, etc. If you are interested in a buy back, they might be a place to look.

They are about a block away from Autonation Ford White Bear Lake that lots of people buy parts from. It's a big dealer and that's where I bought my 2016 GT350 from. I would assume it's tough being close to such a large Ford dealer, but they have their niche.

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