Buyback GT350Rs

[PP0001]

Well... depends on the Buyer.

As I said previously, if it’s a non-schooled Buyer OR one who is just seeking a nice vehicle for less money than brand new (or MSRP+crazy ADM fees), then sure any Lemon, not just Ford, but any Lemon could be a deal for THAT type of Buyer.

Let’s face it, vehicles like the GT350, GT350R and GT500 are for a niche buyer and market segment. People who buy these vehicles are Mustang/Shelby Enthusiasts and “know” them. They are seeking such a vehicle not only for the branding, but major fun factor, “collector” factor, “investment” factor and seek paperwork + “numbers matching”. With that mindset, most of these buyers (owners) know that a numbers matching Shelby with heritage, clear title, low production number, low assigned “As Built” number and certain combo of options will appease a future buyer AND possibly net the seller some decent pocket money.

Is $60k for a Lemon’d GT350R a good deal? Maybe to some, but if it were me as a potential buyer, I would pass on it and wouldn’t think twice about it - not just from the aspect that it’s now a non-numbers matching Shelby, but because it is a Lemon and $60k just isn’t any type of “deal” for a branded title.

If the selling Dealer would take $50k cash - THAT would be a deal. Why? Because the vehicle VIN is flagged for the life of that vehicle and $50k is very fair considering future resale is already in the shitter. I mean, does anyone think that a true Shelby Enthusiast is going to plunk down $60k on a branded VIN and mothball it and NEVER resell it? C’mon, you’re kidding yourselves.... even at $50k or say $55k it’s a risk, because if the owner were to sell it down the road they might be lucky to break even.

Remember everyone is glued to their devices and the world is run by the internet+social media today. Everyone researches their purchases via googling, forums, vehicle reports and is able to find out if a vehicle is clear or has bad history. It’s not the 60’s/70’s anymore where someone could pass off a Shelby as being original but come to find out it was an original T-code... LMAO.

If someone is seeking a track car - www.copart.com is the place to look... buyers can get some good deals on salvage vehicles that can be gutted and made into track cars with sometimes minimal efforts for far less than a $60k Lemon.

Depends on the Buyer and $50,000 cash would be a deal for this car?

Really!!!

From what I can tell this vehicle is a 2017 R that has been branded a "Lemon", has a non matching numbers replacement block, worn out Cup 2 tires, a weak and poor performing engine, dent in the middle of the dash which needs replacing, no factory car cover, no provenance and you think that a cash offer of $50,000 would be a deal?

Not sure if you have ever owned an R model or been around these cars very much but based on my experience this R model is not worth any more than $30K to $35K at the very best based on all of it's issues and anyone that pays any more for this car better be prepared to keep this vehicle for a very long time unless they want to lose a great deal of money on the short term.

From a GT350R production volume standpoint over the last 5 MY's of which a total of ~3000 R's were produced the 2017 MY had a total of 942 cars produced for that year which is by far the highest number of R's produced for any single MY.

Based on everything that was provided by @Hack I would not touch this car for any more than $30,000 especially when a brand new 2019 R can be bought for not much more than double the price of this car and it comes with a full warranty and is a brand new vehicle and is a much better overall car compared to even a brand new 2017 R.

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[Hack]

Oh, one other minor detail about the black GT350R I drove. I believe the AC is on its way out in that car. It blew cold most of the time, but briefly blew warm air while I was driving the car. Same symptoms as when the AC went out on my 2016.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Depends on the Buyer and $50,000 cash would be a deal for this car?

Really!!!

From what I can tell this vehicle is a 2017 R that has been branded a "Lemon", has a non matching numbers replacement block, worn out Cup 2 tires, a weak and poor performing engine, dent in the middle of the dash which needs replacing, no factory car cover, no provenance and you think that a cash offer of $50,000 would be a deal?

Not sure if you have ever owned an R model or been around these cars very much but based on my experience this R model is not worth any more than $30K to $35K at the very best based on all of it's issues and anyone that pays any more for this car better be prepared to keep this vehicle for a very long time unless they want to lose a great deal of money on the short term.

From a GT350R production volume standpoint over the last 5 MY's of which a total of ~3000 R's were produced the 2017 MY had a total of 942 cars produced for that year which is by far the highest number of R's produced for any single MY.

Based on everything that was provided by @Hack I would not touch this car for any more than $30,000 especially when a brand new 2019 R can be bought for not much more than double the price of this car and it comes with a full warranty and is a brand new vehicle and is a much better overall car compared to even a brand new 2017 R.

I like a good discussion - points taken.

I get it has issues - I agreed in 2 replies pretty much the same as what you have posted...

Let’s face it - anyone who paid MSRP or MSRP+ADM is never going to see their “investment” or break even for another 30+ years - that’s fact. Modern day S550 Shelby’s are not gaining tremendous three fold value like a Classic Shelby. For some reason everyone sees “Shelby” and “limited” in the same sentence and instantly thinks theirs is worth classic car money. Or they see Barrett Jackson one-offs go for emotional money and think their ride is worth the same value.

These cars that Ford is calling “limited production” are no more limited than the mass produced cookie cutter S550’s coming off the line before and after them.

As for a modern day S550, only (2) currently come to mind that will be successful future investments:

1) The LE 50th will appreciate faster in value since only 1964 were ever built that contain only parts specific to that very build.

2) The S550 “Cobra Jet”, although not a VIN’d S550, but built in extremely low numbers. These CJ’s will most likely be the future collectible akin to the BOSS 429 era. I only say this because not many people own the S550 CJ, they exist only in the hands of those who can not only afford to race them, but those who can afford to mothball them and forget about them.

Let’s continue the discussion about “limited” (and yes the below is aged apples to current fresh oranges):

The 1993 Cobra R is “limited” @ only 107 examples built. Investment grade.

The 1995 Cobra R is limited @ only 250 examples built. Getting to Investment grade; clean examples are finally starting to break $40k+, where 5-7 years ago, you could still pick up a low mile 95R for under $30k.

The 2000 Cobra R (only 300 built) although limited, and at the time touted as the “fastest production Mustang ever built”; the folks who paid in excess of $75k+ for one will never see their “investment” for another 20+ years if they’re even lucky to break even. Know why? Because the introduction of the “limited” 2003/04 Cobra from a performance perspective of the time period and best “bang for your buck” blew the 2000R’s value to shit.

My 1994 Cobra, is limited - in fact it’s actually build # 0013 out of the total of 5,009 coupes built and total production of 6,009. There’s no evidence (yet) of a lower surviving 1994 Cobra build. I’ve checked with Ford, I’ve hit up multiple online sites, I’ve reached out to SVT, I’ve asked those in the 1993 Cobra circles, I’ve asked everyone under the sun where did #’s 0001-0012 go and who has them? Does that mean anything as far as value and it being a “limited” production cycle? NO. Because from 1995-1998 the “limited” value means nothing and is diminished since Ford kept producing “limited” SVT Cobras.

There’s always going to be a better Shelby in “limited” numbers. But there will never be another Classic Shelby, that’s the difference and why a modern Shelby (or insert any modern “limited” Mustang here) will take so much longer to appreciate in value. There’s TOO MANY of them, regardless of provenance, low miles, overall condition, etc.

My single point in my initial and subsequent response was that once a vehicle has been flagged as a Lemon - it doesn’t matter if it’s a “limited” run vehicle or not. In the end that VIN and it’s title will always be a Lemon which impacts the overall value for years from both a buying and selling perspective.

I agree 1,000% that the black Shelby R isn’t worth the $60k at all that Dealership is asking for it.

I thought $50k was a fair assessment based on the facts presented by Hack - obviously it’s too high. That Dealership will never let the car go for $30k or $40k - we can all keep dreaming on that one. Maybe if it was backed into the outside wall and driven forward into oncoming traffic, they may let it go for $30k.

For discussion sake, here’s the Black Book value on that very 2017 R VIN as of today:

 

[PP0001]

A lot of great detail on your part and agree with a lot it but certainly have to disagree with some of your comments with respect to the S550 or 6th generation Mustang predictions regarding future increased values.

I owned two 2015 50th Anniversary LE Mustang one being a 6 speed and the other an automatic and could not get rid of them fast enough. All badge and sticker cars with no performance enhancements and certainly don't see that car going anywhere very soon.

With respect to the Competition Cobra Jet Mustangs again that car began production in 2008 and followed up with an additional 6 MY Competition CJ Mustangs and follow them closely and watch them go at auction well below their selling price and suggest that these non streetable/non VIN cars will not increase in value for a very long time and possibly not ever.

In order to receive a return on our investment for any S197 or S550 Mustang enthusiasts such as you and I have to locate and purchase unique and very early pre-production cars such as the ones that I have posted pictures of and that takes a lot of time, research and knowledge as to what we need to look for.

Pre-production Boss 302's such as PP0001, PP0002 and PP0004 come to mind along with the 2015 GT350 Anniversary cars with special emphasis on the 37 R models produced for that year were immediate collectibles and have increased in value tremendously since their launch in July 2015.

One of one 2013 Boss 302 Laguna Seca's, 1 of 1 factory 4 seat Shelby GT350R's, and Ford exec cars that were spec'd out and driven by individuals such as Jamal Hameedi as in the case of the 2017 Base R model chassis number "HR001" also come to mind.

Yes, the original 1993 Cobra R's will do well and suggest that the 2000 Cobra R will see values climb in the very near future but it will be the very unique, low chassis number, pre-production Mustangs that will be the best investment value for many years to come.

 

[NoXiDe]

I offered 49K. Wanted to offer 47K but the gentleman told him they just spent $2,000 on brand new cup 2 tires. <- less than 3K miles and you need new tires!?!?
I called to inquiry on the white one. Salesman said he spoke with the GM and he said my number and what they want are far off. He offered $500 off their listed price.
About the car:
1) The front splitter is damaged on both left and right winglets
2) check engine light at 98 miles solution: thermostat replaced
3) 654 miles solution: rear bumper brackets replaced
4) 2589 miles no crank/start solution replaced battery

Best of luck to you all on this one. I would only consider what other surprises this car has to offer with a below 51K purchase price point.

 

[RJay]

they just spent $2,000 on brand new cup 2 tires. <- less than 3K miles and you need new tires!?!?

Someone drove the crap out of that car!

I would only consider what other surprises this car has to offer with a below 51K purchase price point.

Especially when you can pick up a brand new one for $60K!

 

[Hack]

I offered 49K. Wanted to offer 47K but the gentleman told him they just spent $2,000 on brand new cup 2 tires. <- less than 3K miles and you need new tires!?!?
I called to inquiry on the white one. Salesman said he spoke with the GM and he said my number and what they want are far off. He offered $500 off their listed price.
About the car:
1) The front splitter is damaged on both left and right winglets
2) check engine light at 98 miles solution: thermostat replaced
3) 654 miles solution: rear bumper brackets replaced
4) 2589 miles no crank/start solution replaced battery

Best of luck to you all on this one. I would only consider what other surprises this car has to offer with a below 51K purchase price point.

I can't verify and tend to not believe a word from many sales people, but when I was looking at the black car and said the tires seemed worn, the sales person told me they looked at the tires on the white car and assumed they were worn out. They replaced them and then thought there was no difference in the amount of tread. Sounds a little fishy to me, but that's what he said. I would think you would buy the tires, notice the tread is the same as the used tires, and return the new tires unmounted.

I realize super short tire life is a hazard of driving a car with Cup 2s. It's definitely possible to run a few track days and wear a set out with very few miles.

 

[jvandy50]

I can't verify and tend to not believe a word from many sales people, but when I was looking at the black car and said the tires seemed worn, the sales person told me they looked at the tires on the white car and assumed they were worn out. They replaced them and then thought there was no difference in the amount of tread. Sounds a little fishy to me, but that's what he said. I would think you would buy the tires, notice the tread is the same as the used tires, and return the new tires unmounted.

I realize super short tire life is a hazard of driving a car with Cup 2s. It's definitely possible to run a few track days and wear a set out with very few miles.

yeah there is a chance they replaced them not knowing they were still good. i had multiple people tell me my GY supercar 3R tires were bald, including a person at the dealership when it was NEW lol.

 

[Demonic]

So I'm not the only who's sick of people seeing the tires and hearing "woah man, someone's been drifting huh, hehehe"

 

[oldbmwfan]

So I'm not the only who's sick of people seeing the tires and hearing "woah man, someone's been drifting huh, hehehe"

Same here, when I took my damaged CF wheel w/ tire to the dealer to get it warrantied, they were like "whoa what happened to that tire?" It was a brand new tire with <10 track laps on it.

Thing is, the vast majority of people who sell or work on cars have never seen a race tire in their life and are not really into cars. This isn't a Porsche or Ferrari where the dealers and techs understand what they are selling. It's a massive outlier product for the brand.

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