0-60 times

[aspensilver]

Yes and the future of cars is for them to be driverless, as the biggest obstacle for car manufacturers is the human behind the wheel! I understand its personal preference but some prefer to drive cars rather than be driven. Anyway lets stick to the topic rather than another manual v auto debate.

Sorry if it bothers you but transmissions are fair discussion when considering 0-60 times.

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[Grimace427]

Sorry if it bothers you but transmissions are fair discussion when considering 0-60 times.

So my choice in transmission must be dictated by how fast I want to get to 60?

 

[IGJoe2192]

Autos are more consistent/easier and can shift fasters than a good manual driver, that is, if it is a good auto. What I love about a manual is the skill set it takes to get to 60, working the gas and clutch to find optimal traction for the hardest possible acceleration. Whichever you prefer and wherever the industry goes, the manual transmission will stay alive for several years to come due to enthusiasts. IMHO nothing connects you more to a car and the road.

back to on topic discussion. I really think this new pony will be great out of the hole. To me it looks like Ford did their homework on this new ILIRS, they built in anti-squat which again to me sounds like more pressure on the rear tires during a launch. I say this because I goto the track with my father whom owns a 2006 GTO with an LQ9 bored and stroked to 427. It makes ungodly amounts of torque and the only way to launch it is by being really hard on it. The rear suspension is so soft if you try to slip the clutch and leave soft you arent putting enough force on the rear tires so all you do is spin, take her up to 6k drop the clutch and she grabs. This is my experience with and without drag bags in her.

Prediction: 4.1 consistent 0-60 times

 

[aspensilver]

So my choice in transmission must be dictated by how fast I want to get to 60?

No I don't get where you think I said that. Scott was talking about the fastest performance numbers and the discussion he put forth was pitting the GT vs. the M3/M4. In that discussion the lack of a fast auto in the GT is certainly part of reasonable discussion of 0-60 times.

Look at the 0-60 times of the 228I, will be probably be faster than the ecoboost with much less HP but similar weight.

Manual may be more fun for many but it's slower in modern transmissions, not something that is controversial.

 

[GMAN6]

0 -60 times are important.

It's one of several factors affecting quarter mile times.

If I remember correctly, 1 tenth off 0-60 time equals 2 - 2.5 tenths in the quarter mile. Being it is similar power to weight ratio as the outgoing model, consider the 14 ran about 12.8 in the quarter. All other things being equal, If you decrease the 0-60 time from 4.4 to 4.1 the quarter mile time should decrease from 12.8 to 12.2.

You can look at the Boss mustangs verses the GT's of the same year. Sure, they had about 24 hp over the GT but that by itself doesn't account for them being 6 tenths quicker in the quarter mile. The main reason they were so much quicker was because they had a much better 0-60 times.

Any drag racer will tell you that in todays cars which are in the 400 hp range, the best mod you can do is drag radials. Why drag radials? Because they give you better grip which equals better 0-60 times. The drag radials aren't really helping anything after the 60 mph mark because regular tires wouldn't be spinning anyway. Cut one tenth on the short end get 2 tenths on the big end. Cut 2 tenths of the 0-60 and get 4 tenths off the quarter times. If the 15 cuts just 2 tenths off the 0-60 times, it will take nearly a half second off the quarter mile times.

Also, I would tell you to look at German car times. They almost always beat American cars with similar hp and weight. Usually it is because they have better 0-60 times. Look at the Corvette, it outperforms muscle cars with similar hp/weight ratios because it has wider tires in the rear giving it better grip which means better 0-60 times.

As for gearing, yes that can affect 0-60 times, but most modern muscle cars have more than enough power and gearing to spin the wheels so gearing isn't really the issue so much as being able to put that power down.

 

[OppoLock]

I'm not going to say 0-60 is the best indicator of acceleration/speed performance but to say its archaic or irrelevant is just silly. Almost any car review conduct in the last 20 years uses it as benchmark including non-performance cars. It's the benchmark for which all manufacturers measure common daily driving acceleration....A very small percentage of the population even understands what relevance a quarter of a mile has. An even smaller percentage know why a quarter mile is actual the given distance of a race.

It's well known and frequently used because it's something that the general public can wrap its head around, just like a peak power figure. It's also been used for ages, you know, back when your average car wasn't pushing 250+ horsepower. 0-60 is largely restricted by traction in a car that's starting to get around the 400 horsepower mark. I wouldn't say it's irrelevant, but it's largely obsolete for being a prioritized standard.

0 -60 times are important.

It's one of several factors affecting quarter mile times.

If I remember correctly, 1 tenth off 0-60 time equals 2 - 2.5 tenths in the quarter mile. Being it is similar power to weight ratio as the outgoing model, consider the 14 ran about 12.8 in the quarter. All other things being equal, If you decrease the 0-60 time from 4.4 to 4.1 the quarter mile time should decrease from 12.8 to 12.2.

You can look at the Boss mustangs verses the GT's of the same year. Sure, they had about 24 hp over the GT but that by itself doesn't account for them being 6 tenths quicker in the quarter mile. The main reason they were so much quicker was because they had a much better 0-60 times.

Any drag racer will tell you that in todays cars which are in the 400 hp range, the best mod you can do is drag radials. Why drag radials? Because they give you better grip which equals better 0-60 times. The drag radials aren't really helping anything after the 60 mph mark because regular tires wouldn't be spinning anyway. Cut one tenth on the short end get 2 tenths on the big end. Cut 2 tenths of the 0-60 and get 4 tenths off the quarter times. If the 15 cuts just 2 tenths off the 0-60 times, it will take nearly a half second off the quarter mile times.

Also, I would tell you to look at German car times. They almost always beat American cars with similar hp and weight. Usually it is because they have better 0-60 times. Look at the Corvette, it outperforms muscle cars with similar hp/weight ratios because it has wider tires in the rear giving it better grip which means better 0-60 times.

As for gearing, yes that can affect 0-60 times, but most modern muscle cars have more than enough power and gearing to spin the wheels so gearing isn't really the issue so much as being able to put that power down.

Gearing absolutely can make a difference depending on the vehicles and transmissions we're talking about. Have you seen the ratios on 1st through 3rd on a PDK or some other DCT product? They're essentially designed around clipping off a fast 60 run. Who accelerates/races to 60 only to immediately let off? 0-100mph, or 0-124mph/0-200kmh makes far more sense to focus on.

It irks me to see gearbox ratios designed around the 60mph point. Looking at you, GT500.

 

[Seabee1973]

http://blog.caranddriver.com/whatll-it-do-heres-how-quick-we-think-the-2015-ford-mustang-will-be/

 

[tbonez3858]

It's well known and frequently used because it's something that the general public can wrap its head around, just like a peak power figure. It's also been used for ages, you know, back when your average car wasn't pushing 250+ horsepower. 0-60 is largely restricted by traction in a car that's starting to get around the 400 horsepower mark. I wouldn't say it's irrelevant, but it's largely obsolete for being a prioritized standard.

I think we said the same thing...With the exception to the fact that 0-60 is obsolete..Its obsolete for a very small and select crowd. I wouldnt even want to guess the ration or number of cars being produced that have 400hp. 0-60 will be used long into the future for 99% of the buyers. If a dealer told my wife the 1/4 mile times should would probably look at them like they lost their mind...So yea far from obsolete.

 

[OppoLock]

I think we said the same thing...

I re-read my post and kind of cringed after realizing that. Heh...

 

[Husker]

C&D Guess

Check this out on the Car & Driver site. They seem to agree the new car may be a little faster than the old car.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/whatll-it-do-heres-how-quick-we-think-the-2015-ford-mustang-will-be/

http://blog.caranddriver.com/whatll-it-do-heres-how-quick-we-think-the-2015-ford-mustang-will-be/

This is the 3rd posting in this thread.

 

[tbonez3858]

I re-read my post and kind of cringed after realizing that. Heh...

No worries..I agree that 1/4 mile times are much more relevant to the people on this forum. I like 0-60 times to give my friends some sort of reference to the type of performance these cars are putting down. I like to bring up the fact that the current Mustangs are obliterating the supercars of a few decades or so ago and they are coming close to last generations exotics. The 0-60 of a Ferrari 360 is 4.2 seconds and thats they type of performance a 40k Mustang is coming close to.

 

[GMAN6]

Yes, I said gearing can affect 0-60 times.

I never said anyone lets off at 60.

I agree, focusing on quarter mile times makes much more sense to me, however the quicker you get to 60, the quicker to get to a quarter mile. The out-going GT had a 4.4 0-60 time which is nothing great compared to the hp it has. It would be easy for Ford to improve the 0-60 time thereby improving the quarter mile time. They know how to do it, they've already done it with the Boss so why not.

Also, as you said, the vehicle you are talking about is a big factor. I'm talking about the 15 GT. Gearing is more important than tires or grip if you have a 150 hp car because traction won't be an issue with that low hp. Also, at some point you reach a point of diminishing returns with gearing. Just look at the 14 GT500, it went up in gearing and got better results because it had more power. Quarter mile times are determined by a number of things with gearing and grip being two of them.

If you look at the 14 Mustangs performance and look at what factor would most improve it's quarter mile time without going up on the power (more than the 15 hp they are planning) that would be grip, or essentially 0-60 times. It already has 3.75 in standard and 3.55 in auto, so going lower is likely to do little other than make it spin more and give you more gears to change in the quarter mile both of which will make it slower for the most part.

 

[Seabee1973]

This is the 3rd posting in this thread.

Oops

 

[Old 5 Oh]

If I remember correctly, 1 tenth off 0-60 time equals 2 - 2.5 tenths in the quarter mile.

I think you are confusing 0-60 times with the common drag strip parameter of a "60 foot" time. Reducing the initial 60-foot time by 0.1 is usually worth about 0.2 to 0.3 in the 1/4 mile. And drag radials (along with good weight transfer, etc.) really help that initial start.

A 0-60 time can be dramatically affected by gear spacing. Some cars can get to 60 in second gear. They will have lower 0-60 times typically than if they needed a shift to third gear, but that may have no overall effect at the quarter mile since by then almost all cars (Mustangs, anyway) are in fourth gear. And you don't want to be geared so short you need to go to fifth before the end of the drag race.

In an earlier post, I said I think the new car will KILL the old car on 60-foot times thanks to better weight distribution (and hopefully better weight transfer.) If that's the case, the slight weight penalty won't be the deciding factor, and 1/4 mile times will be lower. Or so I hope.

 

[GMAN6]

I think you are confusing 0-60 times with the common drag strip parameter of a "60 foot" time. Reducing the initial 60-foot time by 0.1 is usually worth about 0.2 to 0.3 in the 1/4 mile. And drag radials (along with good weight transfer, etc.) really help that initial start.

A 0-60 time can be dramatically affected by gear spacing. Some cars can get to 60 in second gear. They will have lower 0-60 times typically than if they needed a shift to third gear, but that may have no overall effect at the quarter mile since by then almost all cars (Mustangs, anyway) are in fourth gear. And you don't want to be geared so short you need to go to fifth before the end of the drag race.

In an earlier post, I said I think the new car will KILL the old car on 60-foot times thanks to better weight distribution (and hopefully better weight transfer.) If that's the case, the slight weight penalty won't be the deciding factor, and 1/4 mile times will be lower. Or so I hope.

Yeah, thanks
I was thinking mostly about 60 foot times:headbonk: but still, most of what I said holds true. Better 60 foot times and better 0-60 equals better quarter mile times. Also, looking at the Mustangs, Camaro's and Challengers, the most hp isn't always the fastest, the lowest gearing isn't always the fastest and the lowest 0-60 or 60 foot isn't always fastest. It's still a combination of things.

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