Hold out for PP2 or buy PP1 -> Track Build

[imperialexpress]

Hello S550 community!

I've been waiting more than 10 years to get myself back into a Mustang and to do it right. I've got an itch to track and tour and I'm looking for the right configuration to build on. I'm new to the track and this will be my second car, so no daily driving concerns. I plan on running this 3-5 years and if I'm still tracking and touring, I'll sink money into a GT350R. As far as touring, I'll probably run this on a few road trips out to the west coast, so I gotta survive a little bit of time in the seat.

I'm familiar with the differences between PP1 and PP2, and I see owners mentioning that the Magneride is a great suspension platform, but here's what I don't know:

Is Magneride better (I know, subjective as anything) than a few thousand into a PP1 suspension for track and touring purposes? i.e., Magneride vs coil-overs or some other suspension handling configuration?

I'm coming from Jeep Grand Cherokees, so the idea of suspension and handling may as well be a foreign language. It seems like Magneride is great for balance - you can smooth things out when you're cruising on a weekend or tighten things up on the track but with any balance there's compromise. I enjoy wrenching and wouldn't mind the work or project, its just a matter of whether I'll create something insufferable for anything outside of track use with a PP1.

Is it worth holding out for PP2 or go ahead and buy PP1 and build? I'm looking nationwide for a PP2 with under 30k miles and a clean history, needless to say, there are only 4 at the moment, all out east or in the rust belt, and haven't been many in the past few weeks since I began searching.

If you were in my shoes, what would you do here?

Thanks all,
Cheers.

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[kz]

If it's a track build, then buying PP1 and building one is an absolute no brainer. PP2 was hardly an upgrade, it's quicker lap time mostly came from wider and stickier tires.

If you want an actual track car, buy a Mach 1 which there's plenty of and it's a much better car.
Especially that PP2 supply is scarce and it drivers prices up.

Magneride - it's pretty good but good set of coilovers with higher spring rates for track will be much much better - assuming you're not daily driving it.

 

[RTR077]

GT350R > GT350 > Mach 1 > PP

In simple terms. Depends how much money you are willing to spend.

No matter which spec you get, you will have a lot fun. Tires are the key.

 

[GTP]

...
Is Magneride better (I know, subjective as anything) than a few thousand into a PP1 suspension for track and touring purposes? i.e., Magneride vs coil-overs or some other suspension handling configuration?
...

IMO, Magneride is essential for a dual track/street car. It allows you to go to stiffer springs while hardly noticing it on the street. Without MR the ride for a track-optimized spring rates is basically intolerable. This is because Normal drive mode sets the shocks to minimum while Track mode sets them to max.

I just swapped the front springs to GT500-CFTP springs on my 2019 PP1 car, and while I do notice the increased stiffness around town, it is hardly intolerable.

A PP1 or PP2 car will overheat on track once your driving gets faster. I added DIY oil, diff, and trans coolers, plus DIY hood vents. A Mach 1 is a good track combo because it has the reliable Coyote engine and the 3 fluid coolers.

 

[luc]

If you’re serious about tracking, none of those cars have “real” track suspension
Cheapest and smartest choice is a pp1
Add:
Squared 305 tires on 11” rims
Camber plates to run 2.5/3 negative camber
Ford racing suspension track kit ( sway bars, shock and springs)
One of the best, if not the best because designed and engineered by Multimatic as a package that work great together
An oil cooler..Remove the factory water to oil cooler. I’m partial to an horizontal cooler such as Harrop
Change rear differential fluid to 75w140 and wrap the exhaust pipes around the differential
Get a racing seat and harness. You can’t drive well and understand and feel the car feedbacks if you’re bracing yourself.
this suspension kit will not beat you on the street
Obviously a trans cooler is not needed on a manual
With those modifications, a pp1 will not overheat in 20/25 minutes sessions in triple digits temperature

 

[WItoTX]

The biggest issue with the PP cars is cooling as GTP points out. Personally, for what you are looking to do, I would strongly consider an M1, potentially the HP.

The MR isn't worth it in my opinion. I spent multiple years (And $$$) trying to make it work. A good set of coil overs will get you further than the MR. And if you are really interested in street and track, a good set of triple adjustables. Just be prepared to pay. If you are dead set on MR, then prepare to put the GT500 struts on, and get a DSC. And not the locked Steeda one, I am talking directly from DSC, or the used market (I have one for sale if interested). I think you can get close to a really good track car and really good road car with GT500 struts combined with the DSC. But that last 10-20%, you just won't get there with MR.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Any PP1 with magnaride will be nearly as good. You dont even need the magnaride if you arent concerned about the daily ride.

You should budget for coilovers on the expensive side eventually if you stay with it, but you dont need to start there to start tracking and getting seat time.

Wheels and tires, brake pads and fluid, swaybars, adjustable shocks and you can have a blast on a track. If you want to jump to coilovers like ohlins or MCS they’d be a step above the magnaride on track.

With good coikovers or just adjustable shocks, with a small jack you can adjust the shock stiffness the morning of your track day and the soften it at the end for your ride home. Its not hard and while the street ride still wont be as cozy as a magnaride car its a very practical solve.

PP2 wheels are heavy and for a couple grand in the aftermarket you can get even better wheels.

 

[Oakley]

MAch1 is better than a PP2 and more plentiful. i'd start with that. the PP1 gets a lot right out of the gate. i've only really done stuff to lock down the rear and the car drives great.

 

[SBR70.3]

Another vote for doing it the right way and suggest a Mach 1. Definitely get one with the handling package.

The oil, trans, and diff coolers are game changers for track use. And if the 5.0 does grenade, the cost is a bit more palatable than the voodoo.

Also, the Mach 1 HP's just look sexy as hell.

 

[luc]

Another vote for doing it the right way and suggest a Mach 1. Definitely get one with the handling package.

The oil, trans, and diff coolers are game changers for track use. And if the 5.0 does grenade, the cost is a bit more palatable than the voodoo.

Also, the Mach 1 HP's just look sexy as hell.

It’s funny, it’s always like that:
M1 owners suggest the M1, pp1 owners the pp1, etc
The vast majority of 550, like 90%, on track are either 350 or pp1. Very, very few M1
I’m sure that the production numbers is part of the reason but not the only 1
$ is part of it, if you have the money to buy a 350, you will usually not buy a M1
And if you are cheap, like me, you start with a pp1, spend an extra $5k on modifications and you have a car that is as fast(with no overheating issues)than the 350 or M1
At this level they are all so close that the deciding factor is the driver
Regardless of what you choose, they usually all need some modifications, at least more negative camber and bigger tires in front. Without that they are all front heavy understeering pigs

 

[SBR70.3]

It’s funny, it’s always like that:
M1 owners suggest the M1, pp1 owners the pp1, etc
The vast majority of 550, like 90%, on track are either 350 or pp1. Very, very few M1
I’m sure that the production numbers is part of the reason but not the only 1
$ is part of it, if you have the money to buy a 350, you will usually not buy a M1
And if you are cheap, like me, you start with a pp1, spend an extra $5 on modifications and you have a car that is as fast(with no overheating issues)than the 350 or M1
At this level they are all so close that the deciding factor is the driver
Regardless of what you choose, they all need some modifications, at least more negative camber and bigger tires in front. Without that they are all front heavy understeering pigs

I have the money for the 350 but I still bought a Mach 1. Honestly, the price difference isn't that much. The issue is age and miles. My car had 2k miles on it and, at the time, only 2 years old. Most to all 350's were well over 20k miles.

I also have the advantage of comparing a 2016 GT that I put either PP parts or better on it, and a crap ton of other parts (see sig). My Mach 1 with just tires and brake pads was a good 3 seconds/lap faster on the first session I drove it. I also didn't have to worry about constantly looking at my temps.

what $5 cooling mods are you speaking of?

 

[Hack]

I owned a GT350 with MR and put over 30k miles on it. I currently have a PP1 with Ford Performance track handling suspension on it.

I don't like the feel of Magneride quite as much as a traditional shock. I always felt like the tires were pounding into the road rather than reacting like a typical shock. MR does a better job of controlling the car's body movements, which you will notice on a small track or autocross where you are making abrupt and aggressive inputs to the car. Having said all that, I did really like the GT350 for daily driving. I just like what I have now slightly more from a shock/suspension standpoint.

For daily driving and some track use mostly on larger road courses, I prefer traditional shocks. Part of that preference is the long term cost of replacing them and the ability to make more significant future suspension changes without electronic/software intervention of some kind.

I wouldn't recommend PP1 or PP2 unless you are willing to pay for or do your own modifications. Cooling changes will be needed if you plan to drive hard at all on track. It took me quite a while to do all the needed mods myself on my 2017. For some people it wouldn't be worth it. Possibly a Mach 1 instead?

Edit: I think I talked about MR too much above trying to address the OP's questions. Money no object I would buy the GT350 in a heartbeat over any other Mustang variant currently available. I own what I do to save money on consumables more so than thinking it's a better choice over the GT350.

 

[luc]

I have the money for the 350 but I still bought a Mach 1. Honestly, the price difference isn't that much. The issue is age and miles. My car had 2k miles on it and, at the time, only 2 years old. Most to all 350's were well over 20k miles.

I also have the advantage of comparing a 2016 GT that I put either PP parts or better on it, and a crap ton of other parts (see sig). My Mach 1 with just tires and brake pads was a good 3 seconds/lap faster on the first session I drove it. I also didn't have to worry about constantly looking at my temps.

what $5 cooling mods are you speaking of?

Not $5k in cooling, $5k all together (not counting tires and wheels, 305 on 11 all around)
For cooling:
Removed the factory oil-to-water cooler and added a big oil-to-air Setrab/Harrop cooler mounted in an horizontal position. Therefore not sending a bunch of btu’s to the radiator
Trans don’t need a cooler because manual
As for the rear end, wrapping the exhaust pipes around the differential and going to a 75w140 gear oil, did the trick
I can run 20/25 minutes session in triple digits temperature without any heat related issues
I have an oil temperature sensor on the out line from the engine to the cooler and the max i saw was 265* on a 108 * day

 

[Hack]

I added trans and diff coolers plus temperature gages for them to my PP1. I think the life of the trans and rear diff will be impacted if there's no cooling on them.

I found that adding Track Louvers to the hood was sufficient for engine cooling. No other mods needed.

 

[Doc Dee]

Hello S550 community!

I've been waiting more than 10 years to get myself back into a Mustang and to do it right. I've got an itch to track and tour and I'm looking for the right configuration to build on. I'm new to the track and this will be my second car, so no daily driving concerns. I plan on running this 3-5 years and if I'm still tracking and touring, I'll sink money into a GT350R. As far as touring, I'll probably run this on a few road trips out to the west coast, so I gotta survive a little bit of time in the seat.

I'm familiar with the differences between PP1 and PP2, and I see owners mentioning that the Magneride is a great suspension platform, but here's what I don't know:

Is Magneride better (I know, subjective as anything) than a few thousand into a PP1 suspension for track and touring purposes? i.e., Magneride vs coil-overs or some other suspension handling configuration?

I'm coming from Jeep Grand Cherokees, so the idea of suspension and handling may as well be a foreign language. It seems like Magneride is great for balance - you can smooth things out when you're cruising on a weekend or tighten things up on the track but with any balance there's compromise. I enjoy wrenching and wouldn't mind the work or project, its just a matter of whether I'll create something insufferable for anything outside of track use with a PP1.

Is it worth holding out for PP2 or go ahead and buy PP1 and build? I'm looking nationwide for a PP2 with under 30k miles and a clean history, needless to say, there are only 4 at the moment, all out east or in the rust belt, and haven't been many in the past few weeks since I began searching.

If you were in my shoes, what would you do here?

Thanks all,
Cheers.

How much are you willing to spend…?

I added trans and diff coolers plus temperature gages for them to my PP1. I think the life of the trans and rear diff will be impacted if there's no cooling on them.

I found that adding Track Louvers to the hood was sufficient for engine cooling. No other mods needed.

How much are you willing to spend? I have a Mach 1 in the classified section for sale. If the buyer doesn’t come through, I’ll get a hold of you.

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