A10 PP1 vs PP2

[DickR]

What gear does your car have? Mine has 3:55's.

3.55's. Standard with GTPP 10R80. Rash has 3.15's so his 9th is almost as "tall" as our 10th.

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[Loki-GT]

3.55's. Standard with GTPP 10R80. Rash has 3.15's so his 9th is almost as "tall" as our 10th.

Ahhhh ok, makes sense.

 

[DickR]

Ahhhh ok, makes sense.

Correction after checking the numbers. 9th with 3.15 rear gears is actually taller than 10th with 3.55 gears.

 

[w3rkn]

Doesn't matter what gear he is in, if he want to accelerate at a given moment/rate, then "learning" (which is why I hate nannies) the A10 is all that is needed. Or manually blip down a few gears. (One gear down, is never going to be enough, when cruising and wanting some modest acceleration in a Trans with 10 gears..)

Lugging an engine up hill, in low RPMs is not what a A10 is all about. Your missing the point of having all those gears.

There is a big difference between 1,700RPMs and 2,400RPMs in terms of moderate acceleration. Lugging your engine is never the way to go... if you want it to go press harder.

 

[Loki-GT]

Doesn't matter what gear he is in, if he want to accelerate at a given moment/rate, then "learning" (which is why I hate nannies) the A10 is all that is needed. Or manually blip down a few gears. (One gear down, is never going to be enough, when cruising and wanting some modest acceleration in a Trans with 10 gears..)

Lugging an engine up hill, in low RPMs is not what a A10 is all about. Your missing the point of having all those gears.

There is a big difference between 1,700RPMs and 2,400RPMs in terms of moderate acceleration. Lugging your engine is never the way to go... if you want it to go press harder.

The point of the A10 is up to the individual driving it, not what others claim it to be. It depends on what you're expecting, if you want it to drop a gear it's simple to do so, if you're freaked out by how easily the thing will go up a hill without dropping a gear and you don't have to give it the gas like I am you find it fun to go up hills without dropping gears, it cracks me up how easily it climbs up without fuss.

I think the point has been made more than a few times all you have to do is press harder.

 

[Rash]

Lugging an engine up hill, in low RPMs is not what a A10 is all about. Your missing the point of having all those gears.

If lugging the engine uphill isn’t what the A10 is all about, then Ford shouldn’t have programmed to it do so. It should downshift easily to avoid lugging. It doesn’t, at least in my car.

 

[Loki-GT]

If lugging the engine uphill isn’t what the A10 is all about, then Ford shouldn’t have programmed to it do so. It should downshift easily to avoid lugging. It doesn’t, at least in my car.

Ford has to eeek out as much MPG from their entire fleet and back in the 90's they knew how to do it, lock up the converter and let torque do the work, they then proceeded to forget all about that with the slush boxes they made up until 2004.

Now they have pulled their heads out of their engineering asses and decided if somebody is in normal mode and not pushing it then it will go for mileage. Now that gas is going up all over again :frusty: I for one am happy about that, I don't plan on driving "spirited" all of the time.

 

[DickR]

If lugging the engine uphill isn’t what the A10 is all about, then Ford shouldn’t have programmed to it do so. It should downshift easily to avoid lugging. It doesn’t, at least in my car.

Sounds like it is time for a visit to the service department since your transmission's behavior seems to be different from what other's are experiencing. That said, looking at the FSM test procedure I'm not sure it will help unless the tech has enough experience with the 18's to determine that your's is different.

Did you buy your car at Crossroads in Cary and was it a "good experience"? If so they might let you test drive a different car with 3.15's and a standard GT with 3.55's for comparison.

Here is the road test procedure a tech is supposed to use. Unfortunately it doesn't include your issue.

307-01 Automatic Transmission 2018 Mustang
Diagnosis and Testing Procedure revision date: 03/29/2017

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Road Testing Vehicle
Shift Point Road Test

NOTE: Always drive the vehicle in a safe manner according to driving conditions and obey all traffic laws.

Upshift Gear Sequence

At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle starts from a complete stop. This is normal and desired behavior .

At part pedal when acceleration is brisk, single step upshifts would result in very frequent shift events (very short time in gear). Double step upshifts results when a longer time is spent in gear.

However, at light pedal or road load, single step upshifts will occur. The small 10-speed gear steps allow the engine speed to drop to lower values than it would in the 6-speed transmission; providing for the best fuel economy. In contrast, when the 10-speed transmission is at heavy or max pedal, the small steps keep the engine closer to the horsepower peak for best performance.

Downshift Gear Sequence

At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle down shifts to a complete stop. This is normal and desired behavior .

The same skip shift strategy that is used for the upshift may be applied during down shift.


Most performance based automatic transmission DTC s require the fault to be detected multiple times before setting a DTC . In many instances the faults musts be detected consecutively a predetermined number of times (up to five). Performing the shift point road test as detailed below increases the likelihood that a DTC sets if a fault is present in the system.

Shift Point Road Test

Bring engine and transmission up to normal operating temperature.

Operate the vehicle with the selector lever in the D position.

From a stop, accelerate the vehicle to 80 km/h (50 mph) with the shifts occurring at approximately 2000 rpm. Stay in 10th gear for 30 seconds or until the TCC applies. Repeat this two times.

From a stop, accelerate the vehicle to 80 km/h (50 mph) with the shifts occurring at approximately 3000 rpm. Stay in 10th gear for 30 seconds or until the TCC applies. Repeat this two times.

If the transmission fails to upshift/downshift,
REFER to: Diagnosis By Symptom (307-01 Automatic Transmission, Diagnosis and Testing).





Shift Speed Chart


Shift Speed
1-2 15 mph ( 24 km/h)
2-3 20 mph ( 32 km/h)
3-4 27 mph ( 43 km/h)
4-5 32 mph ( 51 km/h)
5-6 37 mph ( 60 km/h)
6-7 42 mph ( 68 km/h)
7-8 48 mph ( 77 km/h)
8-9 52 mph ( 84 km/h)
9-10 60 mph ( 97 km/h)





Copyright © Ford Motor Company

 

[GTP]

If the A10 was lugging in 10th during a long incline, I would be "inclined" to use the paddle to downshift to 9th. Press the pedal or press the paddle, what's the difference?

I think an interesting test for you guys would be to repeat your incline test, but paddle it to 9th with very little increase in throttle to maintain speed, and then see if the trans automatically upshifts back into 10th before the hills ends. (I am assuming that using a paddle in D is a temporary manual thing, and that the trans returns to full auto in about 4 seconds.)

 

[DickR]

If the A10 was lugging in 10th during a long incline, I would be "inclined" to use the paddle to downshift to 9th. Press the pedal or press the paddle, what's the difference?

I think an interesting test for you guys would be to repeat your incline test, but paddle it to 9th with very little increase in throttle to maintain speed, and then see if the trans automatically upshifts back into 10th before the hills ends. (I am assuming that using a paddle in D is a temporary manual thing, and that the trans returns to full auto in about 4 seconds.)

Correct on the approximate 4 seconds in D except for "no gas" engine braking downshifts on down grades. Then it will hold the lower gear until gas is applied.

I'll keep the suggested experiment in mind at the next opportunity at both slow speeds and at interstate highway "mountain" speeds.

FYI I really liked my 2012 automatic EXCEPT that it was the last year before paddles and manual control of the gears was limited and there were certain situations where I had accept whatever the calibration provided. This tended to result in an unneeded downshift while merging on a freeway simply because I pushed the gas pedal just a little too much. So far the 10 speed either doesn't downshift or does so much more smoothly so it is barely noticeable.

 

[w3rkn]

If lugging the engine uphill isn’t what the A10 is all about, then Ford shouldn’t have programmed to it do so. It should downshift easily to avoid lugging. It doesn’t, at least in my car.

NO, it is YOUR FAULT for not knowing what mode to keep your car in, for the extracted performance/agility you are looking for.

Push the peddle harder... :frusty:



Honestly, I am not even sure if your qualified to hold an argument, because in a manual 6-spd, without lugging up hill, One would have to drop what would be considered 3 gears (in the A10).

Even on a highway ramp, you can downshift into 9th gear to maintain your speed, or if you expect to accelerate a tad.

Have you ever driven a manual..?

 

[Rash]

NO, it is YOUR FAULT for not knowing what mode to keep your car in, for the extracted performance/agility you are looking for.

Push the peddle harder... :frusty:



Honestly, I am not even sure if your qualified to hold an argument, because in a manual 6-spd, without lugging up hill, One would have to drop what would be considered 3 gears (in the A10).

Even on a highway ramp, you can downshift into 9th gear to maintain your speed, or if you expect to accelerate a tad.

Have you ever driven a manual..?

Normally I'd respond to your incorrect judgements about me which are based on your misunderstanding of the issue, but since you are already going CAPS and head-banging emoji on me, I think I'll just put you on my ignore list.

 

[Rash]

Sounds like it is time for a visit to the service department since your transmission's behavior seems to be different from what other's are experiencing. That said, looking at the FSM test procedure I'm not sure it will help unless the tech has enough experience with the 18's to determine that your's is different.

Did you buy your car at Crossroads in Cary and was it a "good experience"? If so they might let you test drive a different car with 3.15's and a standard GT with 3.55's for comparison.

Here is the road test procedure a tech is supposed to use. Unfortunately it doesn't include your issue.

Since it's functioning properly mechanically, I don't think there's a need for a service visit. I get the sense that the 3.15 gears with the A10 in normal mode may not be a great combo for certain situations. It is what it is. I'll just downshift as needed manually. Would be nice if I didn't have to like every other car I've owned. Like I said, not a major deal, just a bit annoying.

Bought mine at Crossroads Wake Forest. Great experience there.

 

[DickR]

Sounds like a good approach. Took us a while to figure out what is "normal/as designed" and maybe how the much taller 3.15 rear axle ratio impacts very low rpm performance compared to the 3.55's. Still seems to be a mystery regarding why yours is reluctant to light throttle downshift compared to mine.

FYI and ironically this thread on my computer is now on . . . wait for it . . . Page 10.

And, as usual for car forum threads the original poster's question is long gone . . . ;)

 

[w3rkn]

Normally I'd respond to your incorrect judgements about me which are based on your misunderstanding of the issue, but since you are already going CAPS and head-banging emoji on me, I think I'll just put you on my ignore list.

NO,I think you are (purposely) being overly obtuse, about an issue that is
a) A problem with your transmission.
b) A problem with your inability to explain yourself, or what you mean.



This thread is going in circles.

Honestly, it seems as if you are trying to create this problem, by purposely driving this way for the sake of it..? Then rhetorically complain about it.

Drive in "S" and forget about it. If the tranny isn't shifting quickly of when it should, it is because you are lugging it and the transmission is learning that how you drive so that is the performance it will give you.

ergo: circular. So learn to stab that throttle and let it learn you mean "GO...!" so that is what it learns to do, when you press on the gas peddle ever so slightly.

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