10 Speed Owners... please talk to me...

[SnowFox]

Exactly. For instance, stroke is the phase of the shift when it's moving the clutch plates into position. The pressure is specified in the tune, but the time is calculated based on the volume of fluid that is needed. If it detects the plates start to engage early or late, it will add or subtract from the stroke time. As plates wear, it has to adjust the time. This is the adaptive part. It also has tie-up (2 gears engaged) and flare (neither gear engaged) detection, and it will adjust torque transfer ramp rates to address these. These have nothing to do with driving style. The shift points and firmness are fully specified in the tune and do not "learn". As I stated earlier, Dodge/Ram do adjust firmness and shift points based on a driver aggressiveness "score" that it determines for you. As such, tuners are trying to tune to a moving target.

Crap. I thought it was driving style since forever.

Actually happy to hear this, because if it was driving style, it clearly doesn't understand mine at times.

Sponsored

 

[MAGS1]

Exactly. For instance, stroke is the phase of the shift when it's moving the clutch plates into position. The pressure is specified in the tune, but the time is calculated based on the volume of fluid that is needed. If it detects the plates start to engage early or late, it will add or subtract from the stroke time. As plates wear, it has to adjust the time. This is the adaptive part. It also has tie-up (2 gears engaged) and flare (neither gear engaged) detection, and it will adjust torque transfer ramp rates to address these. These have nothing to do with driving style. The shift points and firmness are fully specified in the tune and do not "learn". As I stated earlier, Dodge/Ram do adjust firmness and shift points based on a driver aggressiveness "score" that it determines for you. As such, tuners are trying to tune to a moving target.

The trans tech at my local dealership told me that it will “adapt” in that it will allow the car to go into higher RPM’s the more you’re into the throttle before it shifts, whereas normal in town driving it will shift sooner to keep you in lower RPM (thus save on fuel). All within the parameters of the stock tune so it’s not learning your driving style but it is somewhat adapting to how you’re driving at the time. I’ve noticed it a bit when I’m on the highway and open it up a bit. Tuning isn’t my thing so let me know if the trans tech is full of $hit, but that’s my understanding of it being an adaptive/learning transmission. You’re not reprogramming it the way you drive though.

 

[Robottrainer]

The trans tech at my local dealership told me that it will “adapt” in that it will allow the car to go into higher RPM’s the more you’re into the throttle before it shifts, whereas normal in town driving it will shift sooner to keep you in lower RPM (thus save on fuel). All within the parameters of the stock tune so it’s not learning your driving style but it is somewhat adapting to how you’re driving at the time. I’ve noticed it a bit when I’m on the highway and open it up a bit. Tuning isn’t my thing so let me know if the trans tech is full of $hit, but that’s my understanding of it being an adaptive/learning transmission. You’re not reprogramming it the way you drive though.

You'll find most of these techs have no idea how these things work. Sure, they can rip them out and rebuild them. They know mechanically how they function, but they have no idea how the logic works. The actually parameters the computer uses to figure things out. This is the black box side of the PCM very few understand, me being one of them. I have some basics now but you'd have to data log, conduct tests and then analyze the data before you can truly understand whats happening in there.

 

[engineermike]

The trans tech at my local dealership told me that it will “adapt” in that it will allow the car to go into higher RPM’s the more you’re into the throttle before it shifts, whereas normal in town driving it will shift sooner to keep you in lower RPM (thus save on fuel). All within the parameters of the stock tune so it’s not learning your driving style but it is somewhat adapting to how you’re driving at the time. I’ve noticed it a bit when I’m on the highway and open it up a bit. Tuning isn’t my thing so let me know if the trans tech is full of $hit, but that’s my understanding of it being an adaptive/learning transmission. You’re not reprogramming it the way you drive though.

What you're referring to is simply the shift maps. The shift points are a function of gear, drive mode, pedal position, and sometimes grade and engine temp. This is not the same thing as adaptive. Adaptive refers to the PCM learning something and saving it to the KAM for use next time it's in the same situation. LTFT is an adaptive, as is ethanol for flex fuel, throttle angle, cam phaser duty cycle, and even fuel pump voltage. It learns a fuel pump voltage correction then saves it in memory for use next time it's at the same pressure and flow. It learns how long it takes to execute shifts and that goes into adaptive, for instance.

 

[Qcman17]

Crap. I thought it was driving style since forever.

Actually happy to hear this, because if it was driving style, it clearly doesn't understand mine at times.

Yeah I was always skeptical of it supposedly learning my driving habits as if I was causing it to jerk from 3-4 and it was thinking that was what I preferred lol.

 

[Pistol_91]

Do most people have these same jerky issues in the lower gears specifically on the 2-3 shift or 3-4 shift?

 

[Qcman17]

Do most people have these same jerky issues in the lower gears specifically on the 2-3 shift or 3-4 shift?

Mine seems to be 3-4 and 4-5 mainly and it’s always been that way for me.

 

[Pistol_91]

Mine seems to be 3-4 and 4-5 mainly and it’s always been that way for me.

Mine are also strange in those shifts. I completely avoid these shifts though, 1-3, 3-5 and I have no issues.

 

[MAGS1]

Do most people have these same jerky issues in the lower gears specifically on the 2-3 shift or 3-4 shift?

Only until I had my trans fluid level checked. Car had about 1,000 miles on it when I had it checked. Turned out to be a quart low from factory. No issues ever since

 

[Joe Gonsalves]

Do most people have these same jerky issues in the lower gears specifically on the 2-3 shift or 3-4 shift?

Yes mine was real bad in the 3-4 shift. Even after clearing the learning table and the KAM it was better, but still there. This was the reason I went with the Ford Performance kit. After I installed the kit it got 98% better. 1000 miles later, and in normal mode, the car shifts nice and smooth. You don't even notice the shifts. I'm tempted to check the tans fluid, but the process is a PIA. Having checked all the TSBs, and noting that Ford corrected the low fluid level before my car was built, I decided not to attempt the 3rd degree burns to my hands to check the level.

 

[Bob Lob Law]

Mine was butter smooth in normal. A little jerky 1-2 and 2-3 in sport or track at say 1/3 throttle, but not bad at all. After tuning the thing is always smooth, just much firmer in sport.

 

[Robottrainer]

Mine seems to be 3-4 and 4-5 mainly and it’s always been that way for me.

Until I tuned it I would have intermittent flares 3 to 4th and 4th to 5th only innsport or track mode. I now have a firm shift 1st to 2nd when it warms up. The whole car pushes forward enough to sometimes jerk my foot of the throttle if I get lazy. I have the odd time where it hang in first to 4500rpm if accelerate normal and dont reduce the pedal pressure. Doesn't happen often but it happens

 

[Arthonon]

My experience is very much like the last few posts. It was always silky smooth in Normal, but 4-5 in particular in Sport+ would be really harsh, almost unsettling the car if there was any curve on the road. After the Ford tune, there's a bump on that shift, but nothing like it was before.

I had asked a dealer about a TSB I read about here to see if it might have helped, but they said it didn't apply to my car for some reason, so I'd have to pay to have the update installed if I wanted it. I passed, and got the Ford tune/performance pack later instead.

 

[Strokerswild]

My experience with this 10-sp is in my 2020 F150 Platinum with the V8, so functionally very similar. Normal programming is aimed at maximizing gas mileage and completely neuters the performance. It is never in the right gear, never downshifts when it should, is downright "doggy", and is devoid of anything approaching "smoothness" . And you are correct about the lag time when trying to manually change gears. This is by far the worst transmission I've ever experienced in any vehicle and I've been driving since the late 70's.

Ah, another F150 owner that dislikes the A10. Agreed on all points. Mine (2019) got a dealer reflash this summer, which improved things somewhat, but it's still a steaming turd.

My biggest gripe is a very hard shift going into 6th (mode doesn't matter) when not fully warmed up. Oddly, this wasn't the case pre-reflash. Once it's hot, all is well.

Outside the fact that it's been in the shop far too much for repairs it shouldn't need in terms of mileage, I like the truck. But I hate the transmission.

 

[MAGS1]

Also, FWIW, I’ve test driven a few Explorer ST’s and the 10 speed is smooth as butter. Will probably be ordering one in January.

Sponsored