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WANTING YOUR 10 SPEED TO SHIFT RIGHT?

brucelinc

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Just to make sure we are understanding one another: I am a huge fan of the 10A. I particularly like the differences in shift strategy between drive and sport and how it behaves in the various modes. For me, skipping gears in drive under light throttle is perfect behavior for smoothness, reduced mechanical wear/tear, and fuel efficiency.

Just because you can barely FEEL something happening doesn't mean it ISN'T happening. The idea of unnecessary gear changes is annoying to me. If others like the idea of shuffling through all the ratios for no apparent reason, by all means get a tune that defeats what Engineers designed into this joint venture transmission.
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Norm Peterson

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Mildly driven, you don’t even feel the shifts occurring in normal mode, so, it’s not much of an issue nor annoying, IMO.
A fairly sensitive driver is probably going to feel or otherwise notice all that shift busyness (some already have in at least a few cases where the driving might only be a little more toward 'moderately driven').


FWIW, I almost always feel when an AT is out of step relative to when I'd make an upshift . . . somehow.


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Norm Peterson

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But why? How is it annoying if you don’t even feel it occurring? I guess I’m just not understanding why it would be an issue under low throttle. If you punch it, even in normal, it’ll rev out through the gears. I could see it being annoying if it aggressively hunted gears or constantly shifted under hard or wide-open throttle, but it doesn’t.
"Barely feel" is not the same thing as "don't ever feel it".

Some people notice smaller things than other people do - what you don't feel at all (or consciously feel only barely . . . at most) could actually be annoying to somebody else.


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Spork3245

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"Barely feel" is not the same thing as "don't ever feel it".

Some people notice smaller things than other people do - what you don't feel at all (or consciously feel only barely . . . at most) could actually be annoying to somebody else.


Norm
I guess that's why I stated "don't even feel" and not "barely feel". If you're feeling those shifts it's because the adaptive learning of the transmission either hasn't kicked in yet, or, you always drive at full aggression and that's the behavior it has learned from you. :p :) If the number wasn't displayed prominently on the digital gauge cluster, something tells me that you would have no idea how often it was shifting unless you're staring at the tach...

EDIT: To be completely and 100% clear as to what I'm saying is when I first got my 19 w/A10, I could feel the majority of shifts regardless of "mode"; it would hang in certain gears, cut out of others ridiculously early under throttle, bounce between 8 and 9 on a hill for no reason. After 500+ miles, that started to go away, though it would still randomly hang in certain gears (likely due to a freeway merge I have to make from a stopped position on my daily commute), however around 1500-2000 miles that is gone and it shifts ridiculously smoothly unless I'm pounding it (and when pounding it, in normal, is when I'd argue it's "barely noticeable" :) ).
 
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Norm Peterson

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My whole point was that because some people are more sensitive than others, some people won't notice the shifts and some will. Even after the 'learning'. It may not be a physical sensation in the seat, but there are other clues.

I suspect that when you're always doing all of the shifting in every car that you normally drive you get hard-wired to anticipate when you'd make each shift, so you're actively and more intently looking for evidence that an automatic transmission has matched your "shift schedule". When it doesn't, it stands out more than it would to somebody who is more accustomed to just letting the transmission go about its business without giving it any thought.


Norm
 

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Arthonon

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I'd be interested in taking someone who doesn't like the A10 out in my car to see if mine feels any different to them, or if it's just me not noticing what they're noticing. Mine shifts so smoothly in D that if it weren't for the change in engine noise (which is also not to barely noticeable) I wouldn't know it shifted in most cases. It's not perfect, it sometimes does an odd shift, especially when I'm accelerating a little hard then something happens (like a slow car moves into my lane in front of me) and I have to slow down quickly. Then it will hiccup a little because I think it's trying to anticipate the acceleration but then there's a rapid slowing. For me, that doesn't happen very often though.
 

michail71

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Yes, even in normal mode this transmission is VERY aggressive. The normal mode is the equivalent of most other car's S+ mode. Snow/Rain matches the normal mode typically found on other cars. There you get more consistent throttle response and shifts.

I just use the paddle when it hangs in a low gear.
 

Norm Peterson

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I'd be interested in taking someone who doesn't like the A10 out in my car to see if mine feels any different to them, or if it's just me not noticing what they're noticing. Mine shifts so smoothly in D that if it weren't for the change in engine noise (which is also not to barely noticeable) I wouldn't know it shifted in most cases.
Exactly.

That's a 'tell' that even a bone-stock Mustang has a hard time hiding.


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Arthonon

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Exactly.

That's a 'tell' that even a bone-stock Mustang has a hard time hiding.


Norm
Right, but because of the number of gears, the RPM change isn't significant, so it's still not a dramatic change in sound when in D. In most cases, the other road noise is more noticeable and washes it out.
 

Norm Peterson

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Right, but because of the number of gears, the RPM change isn't significant, so it's still not a dramatic change in sound when in D. In most cases, the other road noise is more noticeable and washes it out.
Understood . . . so it eventually falls back on where, for any given individual, the threshhold between noticing and not noticing (or perhaps between noticing and not caring) lies. We're not all "built the same" in those respects.

Shifting at 2500 rpm, most upshifts will drop fewer than 500 revs. We're not too many years out from when the "small" rpm drops were double that.


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Arthonon

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Understood . . . so it eventually falls back on where, for any given individual, the threshhold between noticing and not noticing (or perhaps between noticing and not caring) lies. We're not all "built the same" in those respects.

Shifting at 2500 rpm, most upshifts will drop fewer than 500 revs. We're not too many years out from when the "small" rpm drops were double that.


Norm
That was the point of my original post - I would like the people who have noticed it use my car and I'd like to know if my car is different or I'm just not noticing that they're noticing. I'm not trying to argue here.
 

Arthonon

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Almost too bad that the ocean I live about an hour from isn't the same one that's nearest you.


Norm
Yep, I'd be very interested in your input. Have you driven an A10 before?
 

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3.55 vs 3.15 rear axle ratio gearing probably makes a big difference in how responsive the car feels and how often you "need" to downshift in 35 - 55 mph around town speeds. My car has 3.55's and feels just fine in D in 10th with downshifts to 9th being relatively rare for "keep up with the ebb and flow of traffic". I doubt that it would feel very responsive with 3.15's and would downshift more often. Note that overall gearing in 10th with 3.55's is still slightly shorter than in 9th with 3.15's so even in 9th a 3.15 geared car will be turning slightly fewer rpm than a 3.55 car in 10th.
 

Norm Peterson

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Yep, I'd be very interested in your input. Have you driven an A10 before?
Nowhere near long enough. Just getting past my left leg having nothing to do is a major hurdle that I'm sure is casting a negative influence.


Norm
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