Honey Badger's Completely Off-the-Rails Race Car Build and Track Adventure Thread

[JAJ]

Ya i've heard they're used quite often in endurance racing since they're so much more efficient. It will be nice to have the engine oil heat up faster, too.

Now if I can figure out how to heat up the gear box faster

Hmmm... just go back and read the first sentence in your post...

 

[honeybadger]

Hmmm... just go back and read the first sentence in your post...

Assume you're being snarky because its Friday and you're having fun. To answer your question seriously, you generally dont want to risk this because anytime you use water to oil cooling, you have a risk of cross-contamination due to a leak in the exchanger. Dumping water into the crank case of a dry-sumped motor is bad, but the system will pull some of the moisture/water out automatically. It won't be perfect, but it helps minimize damage assuming its a small leak.

But if you add in a trans cooling, you adding a very potentially devastating risk by getting water into a very expensive gearbox or sending gear oil into your engine. Not a risk I am willing to take.

 

[JAJ]

Assume you're being snarky because its Friday and you're having fun. To answer your question seriously, you generally dont want to risk this because anytime you use water to oil cooling, you have a risk of cross-contamination due to a leak in the exchanger. Dumping water into the crank case of a dry-sumped motor is bad, but the system will pull some of the moisture/water out automatically. It won't be perfect, but it helps minimize damage assuming its a small leak.

But if you add in a trans cooling, you adding a very potentially devastating risk by getting water into a very expensive gearbox or sending gear oil into your engine. Not a risk I am willing to take.

I wasn't trying to be snarky, so sorry if I came across that way. I was looking at the situation purely from the point of view of moving heat around, not the risk arising from that specific product. I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that if it was good enough for one role, it'd be fine in the other one too. Isn't the oil pressure in the gearbox lower or is it a high pressure line too?

 

[MrMike]

@honeybadger You have the most hardcore track build on here and I'm a buy once cry once kinda guy, so I gotta know:

What oil pan and pump do you run?

 

[honeybadger]

@honeybadger You have the most hardcore track build on here and I'm a buy once cry once kinda guy, so I gotta know:

What oil pan and pump do you run?

There's buy once, cry once and then there's buy once, CRY once. Unfortunately, I learned that these Ford V8s need the latter in road course use once you start making power and put them in a car with high loads (aero grip, slicks, big brakes, etc.). I tried running the OEM pan, FP350S pan, and GT500 oil pan and pickup.

I think the GT500 pan is the sweet spot for a CPC motor. Good oil pump and great protection against oil starve for abut $1k.

I run a Dailey Engineering dry sump now and I wouldn't go back. Constant vacuum pulled on the crank case, rock solid oil pressure, cooler oil temps, more HP - and most importantly over a wet sump, it has a air/oil separator built into the pump as a fifth stage. So I know my oil isn't all frothy.

Anyone who road courses a 5.2 with over 500hp hard knows they don't like to live very long about 8k. Usual life is 45-50 track hours in proper road course conditions. I'm at 54 and counting on this build, which is utilizing all the same internals as the previous motor that 38 hours (just swapped crank and cams when I went CPC).

Motor sees plenty of heavy abuse. My RPM averaged over a lap at COTA is 6500 now with the sequential. Shift is 8.2-8.5k. I've been really blown away so far

Cost is brutal, though. 7-8k nowadays IIRC

 

[MrMike]

There's buy once, cry once and then there's buy once, CRY once. Unfortunately, I learned that these Ford V8s need the latter in road course use once you start making power and put them in a car with high loads (aero grip, slicks, big brakes, etc.). I tried running the OEM pan, FP350S pan, and GT500 oil pan and pickup.

I think the GT500 pan is the sweet spot for a CPC motor. Good oil pump and great protection against oil starve for abut $1k.

I run a Dailey Engineering dry sump now and I wouldn't go back. Constant vacuum pulled on the crank case, rock solid oil pressure, cooler oil temps, more HP - and most importantly over a wet sump, it has a air/oil separator built into the pump as a fifth stage. So I know my oil isn't all frothy.

Anyone who road courses a 5.2 with over 500hp hard knows they don't like to live very long about 8k. Usual life is 45-50 track hours in proper road course conditions. I'm at 54 and counting on this build, which is utilizing all the same internals as the previous motor that 38 hours (just swapped crank and cams when I went CPC).

Motor sees plenty of heavy abuse. My RPM averaged over a lap at COTA is 6500 now with the sequential. Shift is 8.2-8.5k. I've been really blown away so far

Cost is brutal, though. 7-8k nowadays IIRC

Holy crap, that's gorgeous.

I looked up the pan on their site and it looks even cooler inside!

You're most likely correct that this is overkill considering I don't plan to rev over 7500. Pretty sure that the GT500 stops there from the factory.

I was mainly concerned about baffling for long sweepers.

 

[WItoTX]

Cost is brutal, though. 7-8k nowadays IIRC
[/QUOTE]
The sump itself isn't that bad, but yes that is a reasonable price, especially once you factor in the install cost, tank, lines, and fittings, if you are like me and don't have time to build it yourself.

 

[MAGS1]

@honeybadger You have the most hardcore track build on here and I'm a buy once cry once kinda guy, so I gotta know:

What oil pan and pump do you run?

Kevin has an awesome build. His bird, Frank, is a riot on instagram too. Kevin also likes to come to Chicago in the dead of winter for our snowstorms

 

[honeybadger]

Holy crap, that's gorgeous.

I looked up the pan on their site and it looks even cooler inside!

You're most likely correct that this is overkill considering I don't plan to rev over 7500. Pretty sure that the GT500 stops there from the factory.

I was mainly concerned about baffling for long sweepers.

GT500 is the ticket then!

The sump itself isn't that bad, but yes that is a reasonable price, especially once you factor in the install cost, tank, lines, and fittings, if you are like me and don't have time to build it yourself.

All the little bits definitely add up too. I have an eye watering amount in hoses. Did you end up going dry sump?

Kevin has an awesome build. His bird, Frank, is a riot on instagram too. Kevin also likes to come to Chicago in the dead of winter for our snowstorms

Oh Frank. He's an absolute clown. Def a terrible shop manager tho

And I'm bummed. they're sending us to SF this year for the event. I wanted to go back CHI :(

 

[MAGS1]

GT500 is the ticket then!



All the little bits definitely add up too. I have an eye watering amount in hoses. Did you end up going dry sump?



Oh Frank. He's an absolute clown. Def a terrible shop manager tho

And I'm bummed. they're sending us to SF this year for the event. I wanted to go back CHI :(

At least there won’t be snow in SF and there’s some pretty good restaurants there. I prefer the warmer climate down in the South Bay in the San Jose area vs being right on the bay in SF. Napa is gorgeous too. I haven’t been to NorCal in a few years, I need to get back at some point.

Overall SF is pretty nice. It’s no Chicago, though

 

[honeybadger]

I've been slowly making more progress. Just realized its been a while since I've updated - and I think I forgot to even mention that I was planning on cutting the floor. To recap, I cut a bit section of the floor out on each side of the trans tunnel to create space for the exhaust.

Bit of an unorthodox way to approach it, but with lowering the engine another 2in and the flat floor, clearance was tight and I wanted some more margin to work with. I am also planning an exhaust layout that will benefit from no bend for 36in after the collectors, so this accomplishes both tasks.

While I had the floor all chopped up and the entire interior disassembled, I ended up going down a huge rabbit hole with the cage. I had a couple joints I wanted to clean up with the tig torch and I ended up touching up every joint on the cage The Mig I originally welded with put a lot of wire into each joint, so theyre nowhere near as clean as they could be if I had started from scratch with the tig torch, but it looks much better, and more important, every joint is stronger since I widen out the weld and ensured proper penetration.

Still lots to improve on, but def looking better than V1. Next cage, I'll definitely tig the while thing.


I had a chance to test fit the oil tank with the engine back in the car. Nice and low, and easy to access. I pulled 50lbs off the front of the engine, so not worried bout adding the 20lbs for this in front of the motor. it is nice and low, and skinny, so it still should be a net positive move.

With the trans out, I checked the clutch and it looks pretty good. Plenty of life left. I have 56 hours on it. I guess it helps its only used for starting/stopping

Finally, I am starting on my headers next. Given the engine sitting lower, I need custom headers so they dont hang too low. I have been working with ChatGPT to optimize header design for my target RPM 6-8.5k. I landed on a complex equal length, stepped, 4-2-1 long tube setup.

Essentially, 28in long primaries into the first set of collectors, then 14in long into the second collectors - then true duals out the back. This tri-y setup will fatten up the mid range a bit and since I'm replacing non-stepped/unequal length headers, I should even gain 1-2% up top.

GOt most of my materials ready to go.

I've 3D printed like 200 of these to help me mock it up.Packaging is going to be funnnnn

 

[JT1]

I get exhausted just reading this thread! (pun intended)

 

[WItoTX]

GT500 is the ticket then!



All the little bits definitely add up too. I have an eye watering amount in hoses. Did you end up going dry sump?



Oh Frank. He's an absolute clown. Def a terrible shop manager tho

And I'm bummed. they're sending us to SF this year for the event. I wanted to go back CHI :(

The 500 oil pan. For my purposes I think it's going to be perfect. Then with the next build go all out. Maybe not your all out though haha...

 

[galaxy]

Interesting on the FP website for the 500 oil pan it says “fits all 5.2L engines” and then says “not validated for flat plane crank”. What is that referring to?

I never really noticed the 500 pan was such a cool and actual upgrade to the 350 pan.

 

[mavisky]

Interesting on the FP website for the 500 oil pan it says “fits all 5.2L engines” and then says “not validated for flat plane crank”. What is that referring to?

I never really noticed the 500 pan was such a cool and actual upgrade to the 350 pan.

I believe that there's a lack of support for the altered oil pickup tube and the vibrations of the flat plane crank lead to the oil intake fatiguing and breaking.