Carbon trap removal, +18 hp ??

[Jasonb543]

A lot of times the ears pick up the gain…

I can hear the difference when my motor is making 17#s of boost vs 20#s

so it’s not just the butt, it’s the butt and hearing a perceived difference in revs.

hell my car sounds different going from 93 to E85… I can hear the increased volume of fuel through the exhaust as much as I feel the hp.

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[CrazyHippie]

On my GT the carbon trap removal improved drive ability. It is not all about horsepower that makes a car fun to drive. So how much horsepower the trap removal provides is not necessarily the most important thing. If the car is more enjoyable to drive, that may be the most important attribute. You can't drive wide open all of the time. How the engine responds to the throttle can be the most fun.

This is my experience too. When I pulled the carbon trap from my GT, the throttle seemed more responsive and A10 shifting seemed smoother. I'm not sure what +10 HP feels like, but there was an improvement. I don't care about dyno numbers or track lap times, just driveability. It's also comforting to know that I clawed back a bit of performance that was lost to gov't regulators. And about my loud exhaust........

 

[rubyredponycar]

Using the scientific method and double blind studies, you can easily validate what threshold of measurable differences a normal human can accurately feel. I don't know if scientists have wasted their time with this particular field yet (but probably), but anecdotes I've seen over the years confirm pretty well that a 10 hp difference in a 470-hp car is completely invisible to your ass dyno. Not to mention common sense. I'll expand a lil more below if you care.



Placebo effect, brotato.



I'm pretty certain it has less to do with the weight and more to do with the starting HP. You might feel 10 hp in a Miata because you're starting with (depending on the generation) 100-180 hp.

I think a ~10% hp increase is a pretty generally accepted rule of thumb for what you can feel with the human butt dyno. I'm sure there is a scientific-method-validated number out there for the average person. Whatever it is, it's almost certainly way more than 2-4%. Just like how the human ear can't detect a sound difference under 3dB, or a temperature difference under about 0.5C... on average.

Sometimes people will say they can feel something, and they'll end up being right, but that still doesn't prove they actually felt it. As I was getting at with @MAGS1 , placebos are a helluva drug.

Db is a logarithmic unit. So + 3 is double the sound pressure.
Hp is not logarithmic so +10 and +20 will be just that much.

Power to weight ratio is the defining factor of perceived increase in power. If I have a 2000lb car with 100 hp, and a 4000 pound car with 200 HP (same Power to weight ratio) then by increasing the output of both engines by 10%, they net the same increase in power to weight, and therefore have the same perceived increase in power.

If I have a 4000lb car and add 10 hp with the magic of carbon trap removal, and also have a 2000 lb car that gains the same 10 hp with the same carbon trap removal, the increase in performance (and feel) will be more significant in the 2000lb car.

We are talking about a specific power increase of 10 hp, not a % increase based on the initial output of the engine.

but can you feel it with your butt(dyno)?

 

[WildHorse]

Meanwhile, everyone in here is driving around with the 2.25" factory exhaust neck down....

FORD did some funky shit with the mid pipes (between the resonator & axleback). I have a pic of it somewhere. It's a pipe within a pipe. the inside ID is 2 fooken inches lol. I took care of it real fast.
Edit: found the pic

 

[SheepDog]

FORD did some funky shit with the mid pipes (between the resonator & axleback). I have a pic of it somewhere. It's a pipe within a pipe. the inside ID is 2 fooken inches lol. I took care of it real fast.
Edit: found the pic

Yessir. That it shyte, and mine will be headed to the recycle place as soon as I get my parts.

 

[SheepDog]

but can you feel it with your butt(dyno)

lol. I can in my Miata, not so much in my porky Mustang.

 

[SnowFox]

Have you considered doing dyno pulls with and without the trap back to back on the same day to see what if any gains are made? You can probably get 3 dyno pulls for $75.

I did this day two I owned the car. The shop actually did the 2 runs for free. Because they to where curious. Because of this I didn't ask for a PDF or printout.( Being my polite Minnesota ass)

Pulling all the added EPA junk netted like 12-13 for me. So 18 isnt out of the realm.

 

[young at heart]

I did this day two I owned the car. The shop actually did the 2 runs for free. Because they to where curious. Because of this I didn't ask for a PDF or printout.( Being my polite Minnesota ass)

Pulling all the added EPA junk netted like 12-13 for me. So 18 isnt out of the realm.

Other than the carbon trap, could you share what added EPA junk you pulled?

No codes or CELs since then?

Thanks!

 

[SnowFox]

Other than the carbon trap, could you share what added EPA junk you pulled?

No codes or CELs since then?

Thanks!

I don't know what to call each item but here is a picture

And no codes or CELs ECT. Everything was fine.

 

[Oakley]

That seems way high for just removing the trap. I wonder those claiming 18 hp have been tuned as well?

are you lookin at the same thing i am cause i could totally see that thing costing 18hp.

 

[JetGray_Mach1]

Other than the carbon trap, could you share what added EPA junk you pulled?

No codes or CELs since then?

Thanks!

I have 25K miles, I pulled it out since day 1. No codes or CELS.

 

[SnowFox]

are you lookin at the same thing i am cause i could totally see that thing costing 18hp.

Correct. The carbon trap looks innocent but the thing is super restrictive.

Did an Unscientific test with shop vac, ping pong ball, Clear tube, and some challeger filters and beer. No logical numbers can be produced from it....but it gave me a visual idea how restrictive it is relative to other filters.

 

[I Bleed Ford Blue]

I pulled the trap and the sleeve on day 1, after installing long tubes I purchased a 93/E85 tune from Wengard. He sent me a tune for the trap removed, but the sleeve still in. After I told him I removed the sleeve too, he sent a revised tune for no sleeve. I started to data log on the first tune and he told me to switch to the no sleeve tune as my STFT's were off. I then acquired a real GT 350 intake tube and installed it and switched back to the first tune with the sleeve in and he had me go back to the no sleeve tune as the STFT's were better with the no sleeve tune. I have no idea what the STFT numbers were, I'm just going by what I was told to do by Wengard. BTW, the E85 tune is also better on the no sleeve tune too.

 

[NGOT8R]

are you lookin at the same thing i am cause i could totally see that thing costing 18hp.

I may be wrong here, it definitely looks restrictive. I wonder if anyone has ever flow tested one. I ain’t hatin‘ though because if I had one on mine, it would be deleted too. I hope the gains really are that good for those stuck with the trap. It’s not everyday that a person can do such a simple mod with reportedly substantial gains.

 

[K4fxd]

If anything they would have tuned the car to perform better and minimize the impact of the air restriction meaning removing it will increase HP to more than the tune for the 21 prior cars.

They did. this is why the 24 has twin intakes

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