Ohlins Road and Track s550

[derklink]

1. I own them and haven't installed them, because I really don't feel as if I need any more response out of the front and I don't want to give up the negative camber. I really can't speak to them further.

2. I'm running a 20mm RARB. Depending on the day/track/driver, I can see being on anything from unhooked to the 24mm my car came with stock. Again, this is all I can personally speak to, I'm sure you can find scenarios where even bigger could work. Corner exit traction will ultimately dictate how much you can run.

My personal preference is on the softer side, but this is one of the advantages of having significantly less nose weight. The alternative is that I can run the same configuration with less understeer. My Eco will naturally have a more neutral balance just because of weight distribution (& my battery is in the trunk) which allows me to run proportionally less rear roll resistance for a given balance which, in general, improves corner exit traction. I do everything I can to gain rear stability on corner entry and forward traction on exit.

I use the rear bar as the icing on the cake, not a fundamental tuning device. It's a good way to fine-tune the balance, but it's usually not the best tool for gross adjustments. Once you put the correct amount of camber in the front end of the car, I don't think understeer is a significant problem. It becomes a lot more about what you're doing as a driver and where you're putting the load dynamically as opposed to just a dead-steering push.

Does this mean if you lower your car and use a bump steer kit (like this one https://www.steeda.com/steeda-s550-mustang-bumpsteer-kit-2015-555-8133.html), you can't have camber plates/negative camber?

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[shogun32]

No. The 2 are not telated

 

[Jaymar]

Does this mean if you lower your car and use a bump steer kit (like this one https://www.steeda.com/steeda-s550-mustang-bumpsteer-kit-2015-555-8133.html), you can't have camber plates/negative camber?

No, I was asking about the extended ball joints or k-frame relocation points that change the front link geometry and take out some of the added roll center from being lowered. If you want to fine tune your bumpsteer knock yourself out.

Those solutions move the wheel inward taking away track width and removing adjustment room for increased negative camber as well.

 

[NightmareMoon]

No, I was asking about the extended ball joints or k-frame relocation points that change the front link geometry and take out some of the added roll center from being lowered. If you want to fine tune your bumpsteer knock yourself out.

Those solutions move the wheel inward taking away track width and removing adjustment room for increased negative camber as well.

is that accurate for extended ball joints? Comparing the roll center control arms and the only difference is the roll center arms seemed to move the connection point down less than an inch with the longer ball joints. I think the arms were same (or at least very similar lengths).

Any camber loss seems like it would be trivial.

 

[derklink]

Thank you, guys! Never lowered a car but want to go with
1. Steeda Mustang MagneRide Dual Rate Ultimate Handling Lowering Springs
2. Steeda S550 Mustang Bumpsteer Kit
3. Steeda Mustang Camber Plates

 

[Jaymar]

is that accurate for extended ball joints? Comparing the roll center control arms and the only difference is the roll center arms seemed to move the connection point down less than an inch with the longer ball joints. I think the arms were same (or at least very similar lengths).

Any camber loss seems like it would be trivial.

I haven't installed them personally so pardon my bullshit if this turns out to be false. As I understand, lowering the connection point while maintaining the same length of arm has the effect of moving the wheel inward and rearward as a function of sine. Moving it inward also requires more inward movement of the top of the strut to achieve the same camber setting until ultimately maxing out against the strut tower wall.

My bet is track width is negligible but camber loss on a McPherson strut can be vital as they tend to need all they can get. YMMV of course. I just want a nice street car so I want to explore all my options. Give me a few more years before I sell my soul to the temple of speed and throw all my disposal income into the toilet that is a race car.

 

[NightmareMoon]

I haven't installed them personally so pardon my bullshit if this turns out to be false. As I understand, lowering the connection point while maintaining the same length of arm has the effect of moving the wheel inward and rearward as a function of sine. Moving it inward also requires more inward movement of the top of the strut to achieve the same camber setting until ultimately maxing out against the strut tower wall.

My bet is track width is negligible but camber loss on a McPherson strut can be vital as they tend to need all they can get. YMMV of course. I just want a nice street car so I want to explore all my options. Give me a few more years before I sell my soul to the temple of speed and throw all my disposal income into the toilet that is a race car.

I think your basic math is probably about right, so lets run some numbers through it!

I don't have a control arm handy to measure length, but if its 12" long and the extended ball joint drops it 3/4", that's 3.6°

Cos(3.6°)*12" = 11.976", so the connection moved at most 0.03" inboard. (I'm ignoring the effects of the toe correction you then need to do, because frankly I'm not THAT good with car suspension geometries, this is back of the napkin stuff and may be entirely worthless)

Then run that through the camber loss on a ~20" strut from a 0.03" deflection would be 0.07° of camber (static). That's a guess at what you might loose

Its well worth the ~0.07 degrees may loose with camber maxed out against the tower holes to fix the geometry on a car which is significantly lowered. You can always open up the strut tower holes, which is nearly free.

 

[Jaymar]

Looks sound to me, within my limited knowledge of suspension as well.

My biggest hesitation on them is that if they are so great, why does only 1 manufacturer make them?

 

[Need4SpeedMotors]

Hey guys finally got my Ohlins R&T from J&M hotpart.com with j&m camber plates and rear Shock mounts! 300f 1,000r hyperco springs.

That's a beautiful looking set of coilovers, this is Junior from N4SM. I have a set of coilovers on my car also.

 

[Du_tch]

Hi OP @Du_tch

Sorry to revive this from the dead. But I'm curious to know how the Ohlins been holding up for you since you're local to me (I live in Burbank, but work in Beverly Hills). My commute to work is through OutPost Hollywood Hills / muholland, so I'm looking into a better and comfortable street suspension setup. I do canyon runs as well (no track). Were you happy with your original springs from J&M or did you make any adjustments?

Thank you kindly in advance!

The Ohlins have held up great. I would still buy them if I had to re do it. You cannot go wrong with Ohlins. I use the car daily, track, canyons, and its been perfect.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Looks sound to me, within my limited knowledge of suspension as well.

My biggest hesitation on them is that if they are so great, why does only 1 manufacturer make them?

How would someone else benefit from making this product when Steeda already has one on the market? Any new players will have to cover their costs AND compete with Steeda on a part which is not very sexy and where you can't claim a you're version will have any secret sauce. Plus its a low volume part which most people (rightly) don't think they need or aren't aware of. There aren't infinite companies offering infinite parts. Somebody has to see a business reason they can make money on it.

With springs you can at least pretend the rates and drops are unique, or the metallurgy is somehow special (Swift)

 

[NeverSatisfied]

I use them. There is some effect regardless once you lower the ride height. There are more effects, bumpsteer is one of them. And if you do use them, you basically need to adjust bumpsteer anyway. Do you need them? Probably not. Most people don't use them. And there is a downside - at least the Steeda arms. It comes at the expense of reducing the track width slightly and also some static camber. But it's basically a wash because you've got some geometric anti-roll back in by correcting the roll center. The ideal way would be an adjustable arm to dial in the track width and correct the roll center.

I added the steeda lateral link arms. Running bmr sp083 on bilsteins I still managed -3F camber with ford performance camber plates and crash bolts.

I can’t tell any difference—car drives the same…. I’m not running data or AB testing

I did lose visible track width and camber range, but also figure I have a better camber curve now than before.

These cars are more sledge hammer than scalpel at a track so I’ve found these minor mods are fairly imperceptible.

 

[Bluemustang]

I added the steeda lateral link arms. Running bmr sp083 on bilsteins I still managed -3F camber with ford performance camber plates and crash bolts.

I can’t tell any difference—car drives the same…. I’m not running data or AB testing

I did lose visible track width and camber range, but also figure I have a better camber curve now than before.

These cars are more sledge hammer than scalpel at a track so I’ve found these minor mods are fairly imperceptible.

Crash bolts - There's a lot of adjustment with those down by the knuckle. If you pair that with camber plates you could get even more camber.

I did notice a difference with the lateral arms. I had the same setup and then was able to feel it afterwards. Car turns more direct and less understeer at low speeds.

Yeah, your camber curve is better now because you've added some anti-roll from geometry back in that you lost from lowering. But the downside is you lose the camber and track width. I haven't noticed any difference from the track other than there's less tire clearance than before.

 

[Jaymar]

How would someone else benefit from making this product when Steeda already has one on the market? Any new players will have to cover their costs AND compete with Steeda on a part which is not very sexy and where you can't claim a you're version will have any secret sauce. Plus its a low volume part which most people (rightly) don't think they need or aren't aware of. There aren't infinite companies offering infinite parts. Somebody has to see a business reason they can make money on it.

With springs you can at least pretend the rates and drops are unique, or the metallurgy is somehow special (Swift)

You're not wrong but how many companies make rear control arm bearings of shock mounts? There isn't much on this car that someone isn't willing to try and sell and if someone makes money selling it, someone else will be willing to take a piece of that market if it's there.

How many other aftermarket parts for a S550 Mustang are single supplier? The only thing to readily come to mind is BMRs goofy chassis brace that bolts to where the Ecoboost intercooler mounts. If that's a stressed member a lot of Ecoboost guys are in trouble. It makes me question the usefulness of the part but I most certainly could be wrong.

 

[Bluemustang]

The Ohlins have held up great. I would still buy them if I had to re do it. You cannot go wrong with Ohlins. I use the car daily, track, canyons, and its been perfect.

How many miles you put on it now?

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