Beware of Lund

[SolarFlare]

I guess my post is a bit miss leading. No I mean Lund does not tune a turbo 400 transmission, they just tune the engine. It is very easy to tune these cars WOT. Anyone who can use a computer could do it. Driveability is another story.

ok that makes more sense

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[K4fxd]

I just want to comment on his o2 sensor issue.

I know it will be public knowledge some day, but, just how big was y'all's fine?

By the language used around the 30 min mark, yes I watched from 22 to 33. I'm a glutton for punishment I guess. I don't think they will be in business much longer.

 

[bankyf]

I just want to comment on his o2 sensor issue.

I know it will be public knowledge some day, but, just how big was y'all's fine?

By the language used around the 30 min mark, yes I watched from 22 to 33. I'm a glutton for punishment I guess. I don't think they will be in business much longer.

Have they actually publicly acknowledged wrong doing? Last I heard they hadn't turned off any O2 sensors and had nothing to worry about (though it is blatantly obvious that is a lie).

 

[ford20]

Ford20: On the Lund tune at the dragstrip, the car would fall flat on it's face on the 1-2 shift, and data logs showed it was flaring to 8,200rpms. When I requested Lund fix the tune they viewed the data logs and told me my transmission was bad and needed to be replaced - In my mind (and my mechanic's) the original transmission was fine, but they insisted it was bad, and couldn't fix my problem with a bad transmission in the car. That's why I bought a new transmission from PBH, which ultimately proved it wasn't a transmission issue as it shifted identically, and was in fact a tuning issue.

They fought me on it for a while but relented and revised the tune, only they screwed it up and the 1-2 shift was coming in at about 5,000rpms. Now that we're on rev 11 of the tune, the 1-2 is good but the 2-3 and 3-4 are off. And again, there have been no changes to the car after that first hit at the track where it was flaring to 8,200rpms - This all boils down to their inability/unwillingness to provide a tune that works for my car, NOT a case of me asking them to chase a moving target.

Well, that's the biggest issue. You ended up spending $6,000 of your own money for no reason because your tuner told you to. I mean, that's not just a thing where the tuner can't find the problem. They cost you a lot of money in the process. It might be something to think about trying to get back some of that $6,000.

That seems really shitty of them (and others that do it) as a business. You as a customer paid for a properly working tune, and if it's acting up and not driving correctly then they need to do revision after revision until it does drive correctly eg. what the customer paid for. If that takes alot of troubleshooting sessions, well that's on them for not being able to deliver a quality product. There should be no limit to these sessions up until the customer is satisfied and got what they paid for.

I would push back on that. This is probably why Lund or other remote tuners are so inclined to point to a mechanical issue. You only have so many tuning sessions built into your pricing, lets say 3 for shits and giggles, and after that they lose money. So, it is in their best interest to say you have a mechanical problem or your setup is acting a little wonky and I need to try and dial it in through process of elimination so you need to pay me more so that I can keep tuning it and figuring out what the issue is. If the car was at a shop, that is what they would be doing while it was on the dyno, dialing it in until it was acceptable to them. My car spent 2 or 3 days on the dyno getting the tune and calibrations set up so it ran perfectly. Remote tuners don't have that luxury, so I can't blame them for looking for more money to get the tune just right if they need the extra time to dial it in for whatever reason.

 

[Sheenapple]

I have tunes saved from my 2015 and 2019. On the 2015 I ran catless headers and Lund had no issue defeating emissions for me IN WRITING. Passed multiple years of emissions just by throwing their “emissions” tune on there.

id willingly give up these files and show correspondence with their company in writing if the feds asked. Fuck ‘em. And I would do it laughing the whole time.

For those that aren’t aware, beefcake/terry was HUGE when the S550 2015 dropped. I spent thousands with terrys company. If he of all people is getting fucked by Lund, that alone should send you somewhere else for tuning.

 

[DCShelby]

Sooner or later it’s catches up with shops…

https://www.aftermarketnews.com/epa-enforcement-hits-small-speed-shop-with-180000-fine/

One recent example…..

 

[bankyf]

Sooner or later it’s catches up with shops…

https://www.aftermarketnews.com/epa-enforcement-hits-small-speed-shop-with-180000-fine/

One recent example…..

After their authority was challenged earlier this year, the EPA seems to have laid off on this. Lund was already investigated prior to that and the EPA may or may not be going through the process of coming up with a penalty.

 

[DCShelby]

Lots of shops agreed to stop selling tunes thst turn off the O2 sensors and other emissions, in exchange for not getting fined by the Feds. Some like Cobb have it front and center now in their product descriptions. Shops and tuners can’t get away with the “to be used on closed course only” statements.

 

[offroadkarter]

Curious, I've read on here before it was possible for Lund to unlock their specific ngauge tuners if you pay them a fee, which should open it up to working with anyone who uses HPTuners. Has anyone actually done this?

I bought a lund ngauge years ago (through Terry @ Beefcake), love the device, am planning a few mods that'll require a re-tune soon and I am interested in using a different tuner but I'd like to keep my device if possible.

 

[bankyf]

Curious, I've read on here before it was possible for Lund to unlock their specific ngauge tuners if you pay them a fee, which should open it up to working with anyone who uses HPTuners. Has anyone actually done this?

I bought a lund ngauge years ago (through Terry @ Beefcake), love the device, am planning a few mods that'll require a re-tune soon and I am interested in using a different tuner but I'd like to keep my device if possible.

I believe the option to unlock the Lund N-gauge to other tuners disappeared with E-motion(the manufacturer), or at least that's what Lund claims.

 

[Evolvd]

LOL gotta love the response of “we should charge more to reduce the idiots”. Apparently only rich people are smart enough to realize they are a company.

Congrats Alex, your video just showed how much of an ass you are and guarantees I’d never even entertain you touching my jockstrap much less my ECU.

 

[The Demon]

Curious, I've read on here before it was possible for Lund to unlock their specific ngauge tuners if you pay them a fee, which should open it up to working with anyone who uses HPTuners. Has anyone actually done this?

I bought a lund ngauge years ago (through Terry @ Beefcake), love the device, am planning a few mods that'll require a re-tune soon and I am interested in using a different tuner but I'd like to keep my device if possible.

I believe this is true, but I also believe it is free for some. I read something about that as well and I emailed Lund a screenshot of my gauge with the specific SKU number on it and was told yes I have three free unlocks. This was earlier this year.

Edit: the free unlocks might only be to use with them. I’m not sure about another tuner. All I know is that I have three coming if I want to use them with my nGauge.

 

[Angrey]

Well, that's the biggest issue. You ended up spending $6,000 of your own money for no reason because your tuner told you to. I mean, that's not just a thing where the tuner can't find the problem. They cost you a lot of money in the process. It might be something to think about trying to get back some of that $6,000.



I would push back on that. This is probably why Lund or other remote tuners are so inclined to point to a mechanical issue. You only have so many tuning sessions built into your pricing, lets say 3 for shits and giggles, and after that they lose money. So, it is in their best interest to say you have a mechanical problem or your setup is acting a little wonky and I need to try and dial it in through process of elimination so you need to pay me more so that I can keep tuning it and figuring out what the issue is. If the car was at a shop, that is what they would be doing while it was on the dyno, dialing it in until it was acceptable to them. My car spent 2 or 3 days on the dyno getting the tune and calibrations set up so it ran perfectly. Remote tuners don't have that luxury, so I can't blame them for looking for more money to get the tune just right if they need the extra time to dial it in for whatever reason.

Frankly, it's a problem that I've written about in other threads about the pros/cons of growing too large.

"Custom" tuning should be exactly that. If it's truly "CUSTOM" then the pricing and quoting should be custom as well. That way if you're tuning something unique and requiring more adjustments, the price reflects that. If you're tuning something simple and canned, the price should reflect the lower effort.

By trying to quote a one sized fits all approach, it puts pressure to limit the amount of labor that goes in. You can't quote one size pricing and give everyone true custom service or you'll lose money.

This is why you don't see canned pricing for something like warps or PPF or rarely even for ceramic. Yes, all those jobs are very similar, and the detailer might have even done one just like yours (which gives them more accurate quote) but most detailers/installers won't quote you a price over the phone. Each job gets a custom quote. Quote the job too low and you might lose your shirt. Quote the job too high (for a simple job) and you lose business to competition.

The very nature of charging the same price for tunes is indicative that it's NOT a custom job. Sure they have a few options and alternates, but if the expectation is that they eyeball the build sheet and get it done with one or two revisions, then yeah, the whole affair is destined for a certain percentage of frustrated and unhappy customers. Add to that the now intrinsic pressures to limit how much time you spend on them, which turns into declaring every problem a "mechanical" issue. Why do you think large insurance companies have an unwritten rule to reject 100% of claims the first time? It pays. They know a certain number of people will just give up.

Lund is great, until they're not. If you have a very common setup and you don't want/need custom service (where you can actually speak with someone over the phone) then buy accordingly. If you need very customized service for something you've invested a lot of money in and you expect it to work, my advice is to find a tuner that's either closer to you or more accessible.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Lund tune if my next mustang was a CAI and exhaust and E85. I also wouldn't choose them if I was trying to do anything new/totally custom.

 

[RonsterGT]

I purchased a Lund nGauge back when my car was naturally aspirated, and then purchased custom tunes and support when we added the Whipple. They did a 91 octane tune, a race gas tune and fuel drain tune. First time at the track it was obvious something wasn't right as the car would fall on it's face on the 1-2 shift; after reviewing the datalog it was pretty apparent that's because it was flaring to 8,200rpms and taking a really long time to actually shift. This was at an event in Vegas so I immediately told them what was going on and they sent me revised tune the next morning - Great turnaround, but that was the last positive in all of this. That new tune did nothing different...

After the event I sent them more logs and told them it was still a problem. At that point they told me my 6R80 was bad and was slipping. The car had 26k miles on it and we were sure the transmission was good, but they wouldn't budge. I ended up buying a new 6R80 from PBH to the tune of $6k+ and guess what? It shifted EXACTLY the same. Lund's response? Yep, you guessed it - They told me the PBH transmission was bad as well.

After a lot of back and forth they finally started modifying the tune to change the shift points, referring to that as a 'hack tune'. I'm guessing they use that terminology anytime they can't just sell a 'canned tune', despite the fact they advertise custom tuning. Their first attempt had the 1-2 shift happening at 5,000rpms, and the 2-3 and 3-4 too low as well. Now we're on rev 11 (yeah, crazy right since these guys are supposed to be professional tuners) and it still isn't right. The 1-2 shift is actually dead on, but the 2-3 and 3-4 are about 500-800 rpms too low.

I sent them the datalog on Thursday and their response was that they wouldn't continue to help me unless I paid for more tuning support. I understand this has been a lengthy process, but I can't get the car out that often, and I've changed nothing on the car, so it's not like they're trying to hit a moving target. For a professional tuner, I find it absurd that even after 11 revisions they can't get it right and are trying to squeeze more money out of me; if they hadn't of insisted my 6R80 was bad and cost me all that money it wouldn't be as big of a deal, but their incompetence and unwillingness to admit their shortcomings cost me a bunch of money, and that's 100% on them.

At this point I'm done with them and told them as much, and not surprising me whatsoever they didn't even bother to reply to the email. So with all of that said, this is an honest review of a company that many people either purchase from, or are considering purchasing from. Be warned, they will screw you too given the opportunity!!!

So, I would love to hear any recommendations others have for tuning. I'm not going to bother changing out the 91 octane tune or fuel drain as they work well enough and I already paid for that and the nGauge. I just need a 108 octane tune that works properly, and don't care if it costs me a lot more than I'd have to pay Lund - They will never get another dollar from me, and I will continue to spread the work on their horrible Customer Service and lack of tuning ability.

Sorry to read about your experience.
I hear Wengerd is great.

 

[DB83]

Wow, watching that video just made me feel "i would never want to deal with this arrogant prick"

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