Does a R feel much different from a 2019+ GT350?

[tobaccokid]

Can't believe that I write a comment and CLEARLY state that I will not be tracking my 2019 GT350 and yet what do I see ? - a reply to my comment that has nothing to do with my comment - duh !

Furthermore I did not comment on the benefits of CR wheels when tracking. Why - duh - it has nothing to do with my comment - which EXCLUDED tracking. Guess some cannot follow the obvious subject matter as written.

As an aerospace engineer I am certainly qualified to comment on CR vs. aluminum wheels.
CR wheels are quite rigid, much more so than aluminum. Except, as a material CR is much softer than aluminum. End of discussion. CR wheels are "strong" when it comes to rigidity, like an aluminum sheet monocoque chassis structure for a race car. Except, what happens when you whack the side of that aluminum sheet structure - it'll cave in like a tissue box. It's intended benefit is to resist twisting, like a CR wheel. Smash the side of the CR wheel and what do you get - trash. Smash the side of an aluminum wheel and what do you get - a small impression.

Next a writer will try and justify how their GT350 is faster than my street C7 Z06 Corvette 0-60 at 2.85 sec. Or, faster than my 1968 IMSA Trans Am Corvette race car that received the "qualifying top (not lap) speed" award at Daytona 1973 for 222 mph. That's with a L88 427 iron big block. There have been many, many cars since then that cannot achieve that speed, cars with all sorts of exotic equipment, i.e. aluminum blocks, fuel injection, etc., and that have the benefit of the 3 mile long straight at Le Mans, where I've been a number of times few times.

Nothing like amateur car experts.

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[Hack]

https://www.motortrend.com/news/for...n-wheels-cut-15-lb-x-ray-tested-for-strength/

There's some info about the carbon fiber wheels. My understanding is as long as you aren't curbing them or sliding your car off the road sideways into immovable objects they are very durable and strong for "regular" type of wheel usage. I can understand people get nervous about them because they are valuable.

I test drove an R. It was used and it had a replacement engine in it. At the time I was dailying a 2004 Z06, so I wasn't jumping right out of my 2016 regular GT350 and into the R. However, on a short test drive on the street, with relatively cool temperatures I felt I could feel a difference. A pretty significant difference in steering feel that I think was from the CF wheels.

I think if you can find an R at a reasonable price and you are going to be using it like a car with some street and some track driving, the R is a great choice. I'd try to find one with higher miles so it would be a little less expensive.

 

[Inthehighdesert]

Wake up on the wrong side of the bed? Miss your morning coffee?

Can't believe that I write a comment and CLEARLY state that I will not be tracking my 2019 GT350 and yet what do I see ? - a reply to my comment that has nothing to do with my comment - duh !

Furthermore I did not comment on the benefits of CR wheels when tracking. Why - duh - it has nothing to do with my comment - which EXCLUDED tracking. Guess some cannot follow the obvious subject matter as written.

As an aerospace engineer I am certainly qualified to comment on CR vs. aluminum wheels.
CR wheels are quite rigid, much more so than aluminum. Except, as a material CR is much softer than aluminum. End of discussion. CR wheels are "strong" when it comes to rigidity, like an aluminum sheet monocoque chassis structure for a race car. Except, what happens when you whack the side of that aluminum sheet structure - it'll cave in like a tissue box. It's intended benefit is to resist twisting, like a CR wheel. Smash the side of the CR wheel and what do you get - trash. Smash the side of an aluminum wheel and what do you get - a small impression.

Next a writer will try and justify how their GT350 is faster than my street C7 Z06 Corvette 0-60 at 2.85 sec. Or, faster than my 1968 IMSA Trans Am Corvette race car that received the "qualifying top (not lap) speed" award at Daytona 1973 for 222 mph. That's with a L88 427 iron big block. There have been many, many cars since then that cannot achieve that speed, cars with all sorts of exotic equipment, i.e. aluminum blocks, fuel injection, etc., and that have the benefit of the 3 mile long straight at Le Mans, where I've been a number of times few times.

Nothing like amateur car experts.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Can't believe that I write a comment and CLEARLY state that I will not be tracking my 2019 GT350 and yet what do I see ? - a reply to my comment that has nothing to do with my comment - duh !

Furthermore I did not comment on the benefits of CR wheels when tracking. Why - duh - it has nothing to do with my comment - which EXCLUDED tracking. Guess some cannot follow the obvious subject matter as written.

As an aerospace engineer I am certainly qualified to comment on CR vs. aluminum wheels.
CR wheels are quite rigid, much more so than aluminum. Except, as a material CR is much softer than aluminum. End of discussion. CR wheels are "strong" when it comes to rigidity, like an aluminum sheet monocoque chassis structure for a race car. Except, what happens when you whack the side of that aluminum sheet structure - it'll cave in like a tissue box. It's intended benefit is to resist twisting, like a CR wheel. Smash the side of the CR wheel and what do you get - trash. Smash the side of an aluminum wheel and what do you get - a small impression.

Next a writer will try and justify how their GT350 is faster than my street C7 Z06 Corvette 0-60 at 2.85 sec. Or, faster than my 1968 IMSA Trans Am Corvette race car that received the "qualifying top (not lap) speed" award at Daytona 1973 for 222 mph. That's with a L88 427 iron big block. There have been many, many cars since then that cannot achieve that speed, cars with all sorts of exotic equipment, i.e. aluminum blocks, fuel injection, etc., and that have the benefit of the 3 mile long straight at Le Mans, where I've been a number of times few times.

Nothing like amateur car experts.

@tobaccokid
Not to get off topic from the thread subject matter...

How did you come to own the #94 1968 IMSA Trans Am Corvette? Did you build it or acquire it at a later date?

I'm also very intrigued to know more about your # 028 and # 383 1965 Shelby GT350's.




You can PM me to take it offline if you feel the need to avoid cluttering up this thread.

 

[UpACurb]

@tobaccokid
Not to get off topic from the thread subject matter...

How did you come to own the #94 1968 IMSA Trans Am Corvette? Did you build it or acquire it at a later date?

I'm also very intrigued to know more about your # 028 and # 383 1965 Shelby GT350's.




You can PM me to take it offline if you feel the need to avoid cluttering up this thread.

Actually I'd like to know also : )

 

[19-kilo]

I've driven all the different years a few times now and I can honestly say, the differences are more felt than proven by lap time once you equalize with rubber. Will the R aero help - sure, more confidence, but not necessarily objectively faster lap times. Will the suspension tuning be noticeable? Yep. But again, objectively faster? meh. ABS tuning? Same story.

But I don't agree that the stock R is faster than a non-R. Stock rubber doesn't count to me because that gets changed immediately since it's a consumable. I've run an R on stock Cup2s and a non-R on stock R Cup2s back to back. Same lap times. The R felt better, but I wasn't any faster. Could someone like Billy J squeeze more out of the R if they had the same rubber? Maybe...I'd be curious to see data that proves it.

Of course I'd take a stock R over a regular GT350 given the opportunity--especially when they were only $8k or so. I liked the way they drive better...they're a little more refined for track use. I think those that got a Base R have the real hot ticket. Jealous of those.

this is spot on. I have both my 17 GT350 and 18 GT350R on the same track. Biggest lap time difference is tire. But the feel is really the "difference". The R is that extra 15% more raw and hooked up. The ABS tuning and magneride is just crisper. It is calibrated for the sticky tires.

I went from 350 to R. Worth it? Yes, to me. I wanted that extra edge. It's about feel! and that is what you are getting with the "R".

 

[scd603]

I’ve driven both on track, my 2019 non-R extensively, and a 2018 and 2019R for a 30 min session each. In my opinion, it’s not worth the extra $20k.

Take a non-R and add the FP springs and Sway bars, camber plates that come with the handling package, resonator delete for sound, and the R compound cup 2’s that come on the R, and the only difference I noticed was the steering felt a little lighter in the R when changing directions (which was probably caused by less rotating mass.). Other than that, it felt and sounded like the same car.

Unless you’re a massive fan of the aesthetics of the R wheels and rear wing, everything else can be added to a base relatively cheap.

I think you listed out pretty much all of the component differences. Take the cost of them and a set of R wheels, and you're probably at $20k... But, for someone like me who never tracks his car, it is not worth the $20k

 

[scd603]

Congrats @BuckeyeGT350! Perfect timing.

@Tomster @Egparson202 I am wondering whether it’s worth investing in my base GT350 (roll bar, track wheels, MGW shifter, maybe R spoiler and splitter, etc.) or trading it for a GT350R. The reality of that trade is that I will have to pay $15K more (the cheapest Rs seem to be about $77K right now) plus about $7K in sales taxes (California charges you sales tax on the full value, not the net value of a trade like in some other states). Now that I already own a base car in good condition, it sounds like it would be money better spent to do some basic mods to it versus spending $20K+ on trading up.

Another way CA gets you on taxes...

 

[FastEddie9]

I had a 2017 GT350 and then a 2020 GT350R. I did a few track days in the 2017 but none in the 350R. We do have a lot of twisty roads in my area. I have some RR experience in F/F and F/440. I could definitely feel the difference in the twisties. Alignment was nearly identical and both had the same Cup 2 tires. I would have to attribute the difference to the CF wheels. My problem is finding tire shops within a reasonable distance to service the wheels. I loved the R, but I don't think the price premium is justified unless money is no object.

 

[stanglife]

Many magazine reviewers also comment on the "feel" of the R - so to answer the OP question, yes, it makes sense that the R feels different.

 

[DaveB]

Can we stop the fragility bs please. The CF wheels are much stronger than a forged aluminum wheel. I wring everything I can out of my R with the Carbon Fiber wheels at the track where they make a large difference,

Now, back to the OP. The difference between the 19 and the 19R is not as significant as the earlier years. Times at VIR we cut from approximately 4 seconds to 2 seconds. That time is a combination of suspension, suspension tuning, aero, tires and wheels. But as track times go, the driver is always the limiting factor.

There are numerous reasons to purchase an R. If you want the fastest GT350 out of the box, you get the R. No more well, its about the tires or the wheels. Its faster.

For me, a lot of it was about getting the R. I missed the 93, the 95 and the 2000 R. I decided I wasn't missing this one. However, the R was not 20K more when I purchased mine. And that would have been a deal breaker for me. The 2019/20 GT350 base is a great car, a real improvement over previous years. And as others have said, you can chase track time with upgrades,

As you ask opinions ,the key to that the decision is that it is a personal one. There is no way to use my justifications or anyone else's for you.

I know of one r that broke two wheels on the curbing at Putnam Park. Curbing is not aggressive and is smooth transitions on and off. He then went to forgelines

 

[DaveB]

@tobaccokid
Not to get off topic from the thread subject matter...

How did you come to own the #94 1968 IMSA Trans Am Corvette? Did you build it or acquire it at a later date?

I'm also very intrigued to know more about your # 028 and # 383 1965 Shelby GT350's.




You can PM me to take it offline if you feel the need to avoid cluttering up this thread.

Yes, please do share!!!!

 

[pilotgore]

I know of one r that broke two wheels on the curbing at Putnam Park. Curbing is not aggressive and is smooth transitions on and off. He then went to forgelines

Wow, that really sucks! Happen to know where on track that happened? More than 3 year ago (before the new surface)?

 

[DaveB]

Wow, that really sucks! Happen to know where on track that happened? More than 3 year ago (before the new surface)?

I do believe so, and I think it may have been turn 10 coming onto the straight....it has been a couple years so memory isn't super crisp

 

[pilotgore]

I do believe so, and I think it may have been turn 10 coming onto the straight....it has been a couple years so memory isn't super crisp

Completely understand

Just trying to figure out where it happened since the curbing at Putnam seems incredibly mild compared to NCM or Mid Ohio. I’m guessing he dropped the tires on the outside of the curb where a rut existed and caught the edge of the concrete when coming back in. I could definitely see that happening at turns 4 and 10. So glad I don’t run carbon

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