Does a R feel much different from a 2019+ GT350?

[UpACurb]

Brush them against something and see what happens. A set of $5k forged wheels can all be replaced for the price of one damaged CF wheel. No one is saying it's potholes or stress that's the threat, it's road debris, etc.

If you're brave enough, knock it out. I have the same issues/concerns with OTHER CF pieces on my car. Sure they're strong and look great and function well. But they aren't forgiving. I have a QA-1 driveshaft. Looks beautiful, performs wonderfully. But it's not nearly as robust for resisting damage from rock chips or all the other bullshit that somehow finds its way on public roadways.

The gap between the CF wheels and the OE non-R cast wheels is huge. The gap between the CF wheels and a quality set of Forged wheels isn't all that much. You're talking a couple lbs and some stiffness.

And again, you're claiming the 2019/2020 are somehow drastically different and aside from different rubber, they're essentially the same car. If you reject the rose colored myth about oil consumption, the "2nd gen" 350's are a couple minor suspension setting tweaks and better rubber. The rest of the improvements aren't impactful to performance (the block, the radiator support, etc). I guess maybe the "swing" could be considered impactful. We'll include that as well, but if you put the same driver (on the same rubber) in a 2017 and ran it against a 2019, the differences would be minimal.

So the issue with carbon fiber wheels is not strength - but curbing one and road debris

Yes road debris causes small scratches - I have 11K miles on my car and if I sit on the ground and look close I can find imperfections/ small scratches in the wheels - but parked at cars & coffee- I dont think anyone notices - but then again I know my car is not a museum piece anymore - it also had rock chips (I added PPF when I bought to stop the rock chips- but there are plenty)

I previously owned a 1967 Shelby GT500 - it was a museum piece and was treated as such. After owning that car for 20 years I decided owning a museum piece I was scared to drive anywhere/ park anywhere sucks - hence my GT350 purchase

The other crazy part about the GT500 was everyone always assumed it was a clone- as most people dont drive them ...... either that or it was getting into arguments with people who would try to tell me the bolts for the trunk lid hinge were not correct and I needed to find the correct bolts- or something crazy like that

Other interesting things was that everyone agreed the old 60s GT350 were much better drivers cars than the GT500s of the same year- GT500 was faster but felt heavier and didnt have the same balance/ handling

So funny because today- well I drove multiple GT500s before I bought my car- and I know they handle well but it just felt heavier- I felt like this gen of GT350 was a better drivers car - funny how some things dont change : )

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[460Fred]

I’m retiring from a wheel repair business. Never worked on CF wheels, just not something we’ll get into.
From what I understand, CF wheels don’t “give” when you hit something like a pot hole, they will crack instead of bend given the same impact scenario.
A bent alloy wheel is pretty easy and cheap to repair. A cracked CF wheel, not so much.
When I decided on a GT350, my plan was to get the R and replace the wheels immediately. I was also going to sell the CF wheels to anyone who needed them to offset the price difference and possibly put some money in my pocket. After the Mrs sat in the Recaros, that ended the above idea.
I suspect the whole CF wheel fragility thing comes from a few who have damaged them and post, post , post.
Knowing then what I know now, I would have kept the CF wheels and just run them 100% of the time. I’m pretty careful watching for obstacles in the road and have never curbed a wheel….I’m lucky that way.

 

[wingnutt]

Knowing then what I know now, I would have kept the CF wheels and just run them 100% of the time. I’m pretty careful watching for obstacles in the road and have never curbed a wheel….I’m lucky that way.

that’s what I did/am doing…I have put 26,000 miles on my R this past year, all on the CF wheels (and three sets of tires) may not put as many on this year, but it won’t be for a lack of trying

 

[svttim]

Brush them against something and see what happens. A set of $5k forged wheels can all be replaced for the price of one damaged CF wheel. No one is saying it's potholes or stress that's the threat, it's road debris, etc.

If you're brave enough, knock it out. I have the same issues/concerns with OTHER CF pieces on my car. Sure they're strong and look great and function well. But they aren't forgiving. I have a QA-1 driveshaft. Looks beautiful, performs wonderfully. But it's not nearly as robust for resisting damage from rock chips or all the other bullshit that somehow finds its way on public roadways.

The gap between the CF wheels and the OE non-R cast wheels is huge. The gap between the CF wheels and a quality set of Forged wheels isn't all that much. You're talking a couple lbs and some stiffness.

And again, you're claiming the 2019/2020 are somehow drastically different and aside from different rubber, they're essentially the same car. If you reject the rose colored myth about oil consumption, the "2nd gen" 350's are a couple minor suspension setting tweaks and better rubber. The rest of the improvements aren't impactful to performance (the block, the radiator support, etc). I guess maybe the "swing" could be considered impactful. We'll include that as well, but if you put the same driver (on the same rubber) in a 2017 and ran it against a 2019, the differences would be minimal.

Brush a curb and you cosmetically damage the CF wheel. They can be fixed. Hit a curb and yes, they are done short of sending them back to the factory. The weight between a CF and a quality forged wheel is minimal. The structural rigidity is not, Less camber change. And to say the 19/20 is just tire is flat out nonsense. I owned a 16, great car but the upgrades to the 19 is real, and its not just tires. Suspension, suspension tuning, abs tuning ect. Well documented here. And , minimal? (2 Seconds) is not minimal

 

[Angrey]

Brush a curb and you cosmetically damage the CF wheel. They can be fixed. Hit a curb and yes, they are done short of sending them back to the factory. The weight between a CF and a quality forged wheel is minimal. The structural rigidity is not, Less camber change. And to say the 19/20 is just tire is flat out nonsense. I owned a 16, great car but the upgrades to the 19 is real, and its not just tires. Suspension, suspension tuning, abs tuning ect. Well documented here. And , minimal? (2 Seconds) is not minimal

Your comparison is spurious. You're lumping several items together. The difference between MPSS or 4S and Cup2's is considerable. Unless you run the car at each modification, it's impossible to glean but I'll say this.

I'll take a 2016 car with Cup2's (and driver of my choice) against you with a 2019+ car and MPSS (and driver of your choice) and who do you think would win?

There's a REASON that Ford put the cup2s on their PP2 package and many were debating whether it was at or close to the performance of the GT350. Proper rubber gets a bigger vote and impact than all the other incremental upgrades.

 

[stanglife]

Without reading this thread, I'll just reply ;)

GT350 owners will say there's no difference. R owners will say there's a difference.

 

[svttim]

Your comparison is spurious. You're lumping several items together. The difference between MPSS or 4S and Cup2's is considerable. Unless you run the car at each modification, it's impossible to glean but I'll say this.

I'll take a 2016 car with Cup2's (and driver of my choice) against you with a 2019+ car and MPSS (and driver of your choice) and who do you think would win?

There's a REASON that Ford put the cup2s on their PP2 package and many were debating whether it was at or close to the performance of the GT350. Proper rubber gets a bigger vote and impact than all the other incremental upgrades.

Of course rubber makes a huge difference. Not saying that at all. But to say there is no difference with the other items listed is not a true reflection of the situation. If putting the cup 2s on the 19/20 was all it took why would Ford spend the money for no performance gain? The PP2 had the Cup 2(R) and it was fast, for a lap or 2

 

[Weather756]

A comparison....

 

[stanglife]

My iconic spec!

 

[Angrey]

Of course rubber makes a huge difference. Not saying that at all. But to say there is no difference with the other items listed is not a true reflection of the situation. If putting the cup 2s on the 19/20 was all it took why would Ford spend the money for no performance gain? The PP2 had the Cup 2(R) and it was fast, for a lap or 2

Or demonstrated differently, take 2 identical R's and put cup2's on one and MPSS on the other. The difference in lap times is going to be significant.

So the question is, if the 2019+ up are faster, how much of that improvement is rubber and how much is the rest. What EVERYONE (including the GT performance pack guys) discovered is that brakes and aero and suspension all get a vote, but simply adding equivalent rubber makes the biggest difference immediately.

It's the difference between stark improvements and incremental improvements.

 

[dsiggi]

Not much more to say here as its all been said well...

It was once said, its not what you pay for your car, its what you lose.... The R if left alone will hold value better over time and is more exclusive

You can definitely feel the difference in unsprung weight between the 2 even on the road, I really enjoy that.

The carbon wheels are not "brittle". They are stronger than aluminum. However, you do have to be more careful about impacts, like curbing etc....

I would not buy the R if you are going to extensively modify it , a base track pack gt350 would make more sense.

 

[svttim]

Or demonstrated differently, take 2 identical R's and put cup2's on one and MPSS on the other. The difference in lap times is going to be significant.

So the question is, if the 2019+ up are faster, how much of that improvement is rubber and how much is the rest. What EVERYONE (including the GT performance pack guys) discovered is that brakes and aero and suspension all get a vote, but simply adding equivalent rubber makes the biggest difference immediately.

It's the difference between stark improvements and incremental improvements.

Lets instead say, put an 18 up against the 19 with the same tires, same driver.

 

[honeybadger]

I've driven all the different years a few times now and I can honestly say, the differences are more felt than proven by lap time once you equalize with rubber. Will the R aero help - sure, more confidence, but not necessarily objectively faster lap times. Will the suspension tuning be noticeable? Yep. But again, objectively faster? meh. ABS tuning? Same story.

But I don't agree that the stock R is faster than a non-R. Stock rubber doesn't count to me because that gets changed immediately since it's a consumable. I've run an R on stock Cup2s and a non-R on stock R Cup2s back to back. Same lap times. The R felt better, but I wasn't any faster. Could someone like Billy J squeeze more out of the R if they had the same rubber? Maybe...I'd be curious to see data that proves it.

Of course I'd take a stock R over a regular GT350 given the opportunity--especially when they were only $8k or so. I liked the way they drive better...they're a little more refined for track use. I think those that got a Base R have the real hot ticket. Jealous of those.

 

[svttim]

A comparison....

Notice the so call fragile wheels of the R taking curbing

 

[br_an]

I paid $62K for a 2019 GT350 with 15k miles in August 2021, which was the one of lowest priced GT350s in the country at the time

I paid $49k for a new 2016 GT350 with 5 miles on it in May 2021 - it's a tech pack so not as "cool", but I'm loving it

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