Automatic Ecoboost Has More Acceleration Than Manual GT???

[Ardy]

Now this begs the question. How come the manual GT has more traction issues in first gear than the automatic ecoboost?

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[WildHorse]

I don't think he was saying the Ecoboost accelerates faster overall than the M6 GT

I know, I was being a smartass. Best explanation I've seen "In a baseball game, if torque is analogous to the catcher, then horsepower is the pitcher. Both are necessary to play ball, but the pitcher’s responsibilities—determining the speed and path of every ball thrown—rule the game. Torque is vital to every engine’s operation, but horsepower is what distinguishes a great engine from a good one."

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Now this begs the question. How come the manual GT has more traction issues in first gear than the automatic ecoboost?

I have a theory but don't have time to get into it to see if it's accurate or not. My theory has to do with the different shape of the torque curves and that the ecoboost drops torque very quickly as revs build (peaky torque curve), while the Gen 3 Coyote continues to steadily gain torque for a much longer period, then drops off very slowly (flat torque curve) in comparison to the ecoboost engine.

So the ecoboost loses a lot of torque as it increases in speed, making it harder to continue spinning the tires, unlike the GT, which still has gobs of torque at 5k+ rpm, easily roasting the tires.

That said, I'm guessing with the amount of torque at the rear wheels you calculated, the A10 Ecoboost still spins the tires in 1st gear momentarily until the torque drops off enough to regain traction. I haven't driven an ecoboost Mustang A10, so this assumes your observation that the ecoboost Mustang spins the tires less willingly in 1st compared to the M6 GT.

 

[shogun32]

If I did account for those 3 things each and everyone would be in favour of the ecoboost. Not accounting them currently is going against the ecoboost’s numbers and it still has greater wheel torque

so the EB advantage is now what, 3%? 5%? I see a month of no sleep for you as you anguish over the clear inferiority of the GT. geezus, get a grip man. nobody cares about wanking over paper numbers.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

I know, I was being a smartass. Best explanation I've seen "In a baseball game, if torque is analogous to the catcher, then horsepower is the pitcher. Both are necessary to play ball, but the pitcher’s responsibilities—determining the speed and path of every ball thrown—rule the game. Torque is vital to every engine’s operation, but horsepower is what distinguishes a great engine from a good one."

I agree that hp is important (because of gearing). But, technically, hp isn't what accelerates the car - torque at the rear wheels is.

Torque is defined as a twisting force that causes rotation (of the wheels, in this case). As explained previously, the formula for force is f = m*a. Torque is the force. So, acceleration, a = f/m. Acceleration is force divided by mass. The acceleration formula does not have power in it. Therefore, power does not accelerate a car.

High hp generally means high rpms which means numerically high gear ratios (i.e., 3.73s in lieu of 3.15s) can be used to take advantage of the engine speed, which provide a large multiplication to a moderate torque level, equaling high torque (force) to the rear wheels = quick acceleration.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

If I did account for those 3 things each and everyone would be in favour of the ecoboost. Not accounting them currently is going against the ecoboost’s numbers and it still has greater wheel torque

I’m loving your Bill Nye the science guy input. But ultimately initial torque isn’t a matrix that many people are interested in. As a drag racer. I’m much more interested in available traction. Because even at a drag strip with an OEM tire. More torque at the wheel only translates to more wheel spin. Not better acceleration. Don’t think I’m a v8 guy talking down to the eb guys. I have the 2.3 in my ranger. It’s quite the impressive little engine.

 

[WildHorse]

nobody cares about wanking over paper numbers.

Exactly, and that's why I said very early on "all things being equal, a 1000 hp / 100 lbs-ft car will be quicker than a 100 hp 1000 lbs-ft car. A statement some peeps cannot grasp. A stock for stock GT MT82 (w/ 3.31's), is gonna hand the ecoboost A10 (with 3.73's) it's ass in the 60 foot even with according to the 'math' the GT be down over 1000 lb-ft of torque peak for peak. BTW, the 2019 EB runs 5.3 seconds to 60 mph and 13.9 seconds in the quarter at 97.2 mph, according to C&D.

 

[Ardy]

In a baseball game, if torque is analogous to the catcher, then horsepower is the pitcher. Both are necessary to play ball, but the pitcher’s responsibilities—determining the speed and path of every ball thrown—rule the game. Torque is vital to every engine’s operation, but horsepower is what distinguishes a great engine from a good one

Literally just go understand F=ma and T=Fr

 

[Ardy]

I haven't driven an ecoboost Mustang A10, so this assumes your observation that the ecoboost Mustang spins the tires less willingly in 1st compared to the M6 GT.

Yeah. My A10 Ecoboost can never spin tires in a straight line when flooring it at peak torque in first on good dry clean pavement.

I think it’s because it takes time for the turbo to spool up which means it eases into the power instead of shocking the tires like an NA will. This causes weight transfer to the back making it harder to let the tires loose.

If you gradually increase throttle in a manual GT, will it still spin the tires in first? I think not.

 

[WildHorse]

Literally just go understand F=ma and T=Fr

I understand it just fine, thanks.

 

[Ardy]

so the EB advantage is now what, 3%? 5%? I see a month of no sleep for you as you anguish over the clear inferiority of the GT. geezus, get a grip man. nobody cares about wanking over paper numbers

Why are you like this?

 

[Ardy]

I understand it just fine, thanks.

I don’t even know what to say. Maybe some day you will find out what you said is factually and objectively incorrect.

 

[shogun32]

My A10 Ecoboost can never spin tires in a straight line when flooring it at peak torque in first on good dry clean pavement.

So what? I can get my EB to slip the tires just on power alone in 1st gear from a slow roll - I like my clutch too much to just dump it from stopped. I have a M6 and 3.55 gears. Even my GTI will spin the wheels under power alone once I clear 3500RPM and the boost comes on good and hard. But I also have craptastic Pirelli tires on that one. The GT (M6, 3.73) is less willing to light up the tires but you can do things like stabbing the clutch and then dumping it while in a slow-roll.

Are you trying to be the next drifting sensation? If so why would you ever drive an auto and why this fascination with the topic? Put different gears on your car if you're gonna keep grinding over this. The EB has about 3000 RPM band to work with. On the GT it's more like 5500RPM.

Can I assume you remembered to turn the nannies off?

 

[ihasnostang]

Yeah. My A10 Ecoboost can never spin tires in a straight line when flooring it at peak torque in first on good dry clean pavement.

I think it’s because it takes time for the turbo to spool up which means it eases into the power instead of shocking the tires like an NA will. This causes weight transfer to the back making it harder to let the tires loose.

If you gradually increase throttle in a manual GT, will it still spin the tires in first? I think not.

what rpm/speed did you try this at? ill have to try this. did you manually select 1st? turbo spool shouldn't be an issue if you manually select 1st as the torque converted should be locked up, having it in the most aggressive drive mode should made the throttle open faster too..

 

[Ardy]

Are you trying to be the next drifting sensation?

I don’t know. You tell me

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