Is it now between Bernie and Bloomberg?

[Docscurlock]

While we're at it, lets cut taxes for the wealthy by 2 trillion that only half will get paid back, lets give billions to farmers on failed china trade tariffs and in the process kill business and hurt other avenues of trade, lets have Mexico... I mean US tax payers pay for a wall, and lets expand our federal budget and military budget with money we just made up. All while we do nothing to be fiscally conservative.

The word's fiscally responsible and the US government should not be used in the same paragraph.

You're right Trump isn't perfect, the man didn't have a plan to pay for any of this. He sold lies and promises without any justifiable way to pay for this, any reasonable person would ask how but nope don't need justification when its in the interests of the wealthy.

I would be happier if he would spend less money, let's lose family paid leave for .gov employees and 80% of the federal gov

Put when we talk healthcare, student debt crisis

These things seem to work already, borrow money to go to school, pay it back with the money you make in a new career. Need healthcare? Lots of health insurance policies out there, my plan keep my out of pocket expenses, regardless of what happens to $7600 per year

Massive military and defense spending, and tax cuts that reduce gov income, sounds pretty similar to the last recession just missing some mandatory gov spending, but we're just gonna hope those people die off before we need to pay for them.

New green deal will gut the economy and put starvation and misery on a new level not seen since the plague and the black death. But it sounds like a good idea.

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[watisthis]

The word's fiscally responsible and the US government should not be used in the same paragraph.

I would be happier if he would spend less money, let's lose family paid leave for .gov employees and 80% of the federal gov

These things seem to work already, borrow money to go to school, pay it back with the money you make in a new career. Need healthcare? Lots of health insurance policies out there, my plan keep my out of pocket expenses, regardless of what happens to $7600 per year

New green deal will gut the economy and put starvation and misery on a new level not seen since the plague and the black death. But it sounds like a good idea.

Already talked to Trump, apparently, you dont actually need to make more money than you spend. Anyway, Mexico or tax cuts will pay for it somehow, don't bother asking us how just know it'll make America great again.

Just talked to FDR too, the new deal aka social safety nets stimulated us out of the great depression. Turns out you, in fact, do not understand macroeconomics. Who knew my spending could be your income? It's almost as if this is all related somehow.

"Herein lies a paradox. Conventional wisdom asserts that high wages raise costs and reduce international competitiveness... The Americans passed the Reciprocal Trade Agreement Act and began to reduce tariffs, drawing back the protectionist stance adopted by Hoover. The paradox is deepened by American business support of the high-wage component of Roosevelt's policy. Industrialists had never been as staunch deflationists as financiers, and they supported the imposition of high wages. Their argument, never clearly stated, was that high wages promoted longer job tenure, the acquisition of job skills, and innovation... High wages and low tariffs were the keys to their success in their eyes (Ferguson 1984)."

Large gov spending on infrastructure and stimulating its economic drivers = bad, lmao! /s

 

[Docscurlock]

Already talked to Trump, apparently, you dont actually need to make more money than you spend. Anyway, Mexico or tax cuts will pay for it somehow, don't bother asking us how just know it'll make America great again.

Just talked to FDR too, the new deal aka social safety nets stimulated us out of the great depression. Turns out you, in fact, do not understand macroeconomics. Who knew my spending could be your income? It's almost as if this is all related somehow.

"Herein lies a paradox. Conventional wisdom asserts that high wages raise costs and reduce international competitiveness... The Americans passed the Reciprocal Trade Agreement Act and began to reduce tariffs, drawing back the protectionist stance adopted by Hoover. The paradox is deepened by American business support of the high-wage component of Roosevelt's policy. Industrialists had never been as staunch deflationists as financiers, and they supported the imposition of high wages. Their argument, never clearly stated, was that high wages promoted longer job tenure, the acquisition of job skills, and innovation... High wages and low tariffs were the keys to their success in their eyes (Ferguson 1984)."

Large gov spending on infrastructure and stimulating its economic drivers = bad, lmao! /s

The .gov hasn't been in the fiscal black for many years, mostly because of it's own bloated, enormous, wasteful self. So your argument goes, more government waste=economic prosperity. Wow, the Bernie and AOC really should be in charge.

PS the Great depression was caused by the bad liberal financial policies starting with Wilson and the adoption of the Federal Reserve Act. The depression ended in spite of FDR amazingly enough.

 

[Bikeman315]

Wow, the two of you are still at it. I'm going to have to catch-up

Here's something I think all of can agree on. "THIS IS NUTS"

Proposed San Diego initiative would ban gas car sales over $50k, first in US

https://electrek.co/2020/02/19/prop...would-ban-gas-car-sales-over-50k-first-in-us/

 

[watisthis]

The .gov hasn't been in the fiscal black for many years, mostly because of it's own bloated, enormous, wasteful self. So your argument goes, more government waste=economic prosperity. Wow, the Bernie and AOC really should be in charge.

PS the Great depression was caused by the bad liberal financial policies starting with Wilson and the adoption of the Federal Reserve Act. The depression ended in spite of FDR amazingly enough.

No, it's been because Bush and Trump literally do not know how economics work. The success of Clinton's economy was basically half happenstance and half a great fed chair. Information technology, women joining the workforce in the 60s which catapulted GDP in the 80s and 90s, increased personal debt (also resulted in 2007 crash, thanks Clinton), and tax on the wealthiest (OECD did a study that showed income inequality does harm the economy.)

You still think gov spending is this closed-loop not benefiting the economy as if you've never heard of aggregate demand.

The great depression was because of tulips and the stock market bubble. The Republicans don't believe in the gov't doing things so the gov't did nothing to stop it except for a tariff on foreign goods. Which made things worse, with the new tax fewer countries traded with us, less stuff to trade, less stuff to buy and sell. All that money that needed to move and do work wasn't moving or doing work which caused a credit freeze when we didn't have the gold to pay back after the bubble burst. This could have all been avoided by Republicans actually regulating at any point of this retardation of fear of missing out of the tulip boom.

What FDR did was make things suck less, he got the gov to spend a lot of money and raise up some debt of their own to put people back to work, building roads, dams, parks, etc. FDR also made more rules about those damn tulips and for these banks so people would trust them again. We needed these banks so that people would save their money, that money would be pooled and it could be loaned out and help start new businesses and build homes. Really he just took the pain away and helped with morale by putting people back to work which is far more than Republicans attempted to do while shit was hitting the fan.

The truth is most 45+-year-olds are just brainwashed and it is almost no fault of their own.

 

[Bikeman315]

Just close your eyes, think this... Scream 'Merica! and pull the lever for Donald Trump. It's him or Bernie. What do you have to lose besides a small part of your soul and self respect?

Wow, those last three pages gave me a headache. And so does Bernie. But the reason I cannot pull the lever for Trump is simple. Both my wife and myself are retired. I paid into Social security for over 45 years and the Republicans think it an entitlement. No, that's my money and I want the president and his senate buddies to leave their greedy hands off of it. Same going for Medicare (not Medicaid). I'm paying for it and have no issue in doing so. But it is not an entitlement. Leave it alone. The free healthcare that our congress gets, now that's an entitlement. If Trump needs money for a wall (or anything else for that matter), take it from them.

 

[Docscurlock]

The truth is most 45+-year-olds are just brainwashed and it is almost no fault of their own.

And you are so worldly and wise, Oh Great One. I am still waiting to see if you ever held a job in the private sector where you had to produce something or compete for your bacon.

 

[Docscurlock]

Wow, those last three pages gave me a headache. And so does Bernie. But the reason I cannot pull the lever for Trump is simple. Both my wife and myself are retired. I paid into Social security for over 45 years and the Republicans think it an entitlement. No, that's my money and I want the president and his senate buddies to leave their greedy hands off of it. Same going for Medicare (not Medicaid). I'm paying for it and have no issue in doing so. But it is not an entitlement. Leave it alone. The free healthcare that our congress gets, now that's an entitlement. If Trump needs money for a wall (or anything else for that matter), take it from them.

I think SS and medicare would be fine and be solvent if it didn't turn out to be a slush fund for every Tom Dick or Harry that decides he doesn't feel like working anymore. If I had a dollar for every person that expected me to work for free because they are on disability and feel entitled to my labor, I would have 3 houses like Bernie Sanders.

 

[watisthis]

And you are so worldly and wise, Oh Great One. I am still waiting to see if you ever held a job in the private sector where you had to produce something or compete for your bacon.

You haven't proven otherwise, 90% of the stuff you've spewed is incorrect or ridiculous propaganda. You label everything socialism and expect me to believe you're not brainwashed still hugging onto the red scare, calling for walls when you have no idea how illegal immigration was proliferated under Regan and Bush, eating up the idea that lack of regulation and 'fiscal responsibility' will be what's best for everyone unless we're talking about tax cuts for the wealthy, walls, military budget, etc, only if your middle and lower class do you need to be responsible, shilling out lies and misinformation over and over, history is not on your side.

Never worked in the private sector, don't need to nor do I care, I enjoy serving my country. I did more than enough competing and producing while I was in the military but I'm not going to downplay what anyone else has done in the private sector, we each do a different job and serve a different purpose.

 

[watisthis]

I would have 3 houses like Bernie Sanders.

A common tactic of the right to attack people that clearly have the moral high ground (a frequent occurrence), Bernie has shown his taxes and worked hard as a senator to have a net worth of 2.5mil (lol so wealthy) and yet still talks about income inequality.

"Oh, that person is doing good?!" Well if they really meant it then why do they still have money and a shirt on their back? If they were really trying to do good they would give their last penny to homeless people and donate all their organs to the kids in need.

And if he were, in fact, penniless and organless, the headline would be "Dirty hippie 'socialist' idiot who can't manage money want the US as bankrupt as himself"

You can't win with people this ignorant and dense. Start and end with a premise of malice, my god.

 

[Hack]

Social security is a Ponzi scheme. It's not the money of the retirees that they paid into the system throughout their lives going back to them. It's the people who are currently working paying for those who are currently retired. At least that's the theory. In practice, the government doesn't limit themselves to spending revenues. They just continue printing money and increasing debt. There's no solvency in our federal government. I would love to see that introduced though. A law that says the feds can never spend more than they take in. And they can lay off people or cut non-essential services to get there. That would be awesome.

Like it or not, SS is mostly wealth redistribution to help the less fortunate or those that didn't plan/save for retirement. I personally am glad we are able as a society to afford SS.

I liked Bush's idea of privatizing a small percentage of SS so that some small percentage would be your money coming back to you. It would be a huge increase in retirement funds available for most of us. But that scheme was somehow widely demonized and didn't get approved.

 

[lacanteen]

Wow, the two of you are still at it. I'm going to have to catch-up

Here's something I think all of can agree on. "THIS IS NUTS"

Proposed San Diego initiative would ban gas car sales over $50k, first in US

https://electrek.co/2020/02/19/prop...would-ban-gas-car-sales-over-50k-first-in-us/

Note to self: Invest in a U-Haul franchise if this become law in San Diego.

 

[watisthis]

Social security is a Ponzi scheme

SS is a form of long term insurance and is transparent unlike a Ponzi. A Ponzi scheme recruits new people to hide the fact that you're losing money, SS is different because its more or less fully funded and it doesn't promise fraudulent returns.

Some argue as the birth rate drops further and there are fewer workers to support each retiree, it becomes more difficult to sustain SS, but immigration makes up for our falling birth rates as the US has been growing with falling birth rates for awhile now. Another argument is that people are living longer. When SS was introduced I think the average age at death was 55-60? Modern medicine, etc

I would say SS exists to prevent elder poverty which was a phenomenon back when FDR was president, and it helped stimulate the economy by having more people able to to participate.

I don't know much about Bush's privatization maybe he had the same idea I do, but I would look at something like removing the cap on payroll tax as it only applies to the first 100ish thousand a person makes a year. This only applies to a fraction of the income due to how lopsided income inequality is.

 

[lacanteen]

Wow, those last three pages gave me a headache. And so does Bernie. But the reason I cannot pull the lever for Trump is simple. Both my wife and myself are retired. I paid into Social security for over 45 years and the Republicans think it an entitlement. No, that's my money and I want the president and his senate buddies to leave their greedy hands off of it. Same going for Medicare (not Medicaid). I'm paying for it and have no issue in doing so. But it is not an entitlement. Leave it alone. The free healthcare that our congress gets, now that's an entitlement. If Trump needs money for a wall (or anything else for that matter), take it from them.

I haven't heard anything about stopping Social Security. You have paid in all your life and you should get your promise. I too am too far in to self retire. I'll be 59 this year. Did well in early 2000's and the company that ditched me in 2009 also forced me to roll my 401K when it started recovering. Had to raid most of the 401K to relocate to Louisiana and wait 3 years for my other home to sell. Yes, sir, you earned your promise and will get it.

I would favor a hybrid plan for young people in the work force. You should be able to divert up to 50% of your SS contribution to a 401K or Roth IRA. The same percentage of the employer's contribution would do the same. No change in costs for anyone but my money is working for me. If you took your total contributions over your lifetime and had it invested at a modest 5% the power of compound interest would amaze you. Your benefits after retirement would be nowhere near that. Upon retirement, you would only get a government benefit equal to your contribution percentage. That's at least a framework to move forward rather than continue to kick the can and threaten insolvency and bitch.

At this point in our economy, a Democrat in the white house would be an economic disaster. Business wallets will slam shut just like they did in 2009 with the uncertainty created. With Trump, at least you know what you have. The Republicans don't yet have a plan for 2024 yet. Pence is a decent man, but seems lacking. The Democrat Senator from West Virginia would be a viable candidate and better than anyone in the fray right now.

 

[lacanteen]

So, how about that debate last night? Time to put a fork in Bloomberg? The next 7 days will be interesting.

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