Immigration and border issues

[The Chairman]

The number of illegal immigrants crossing our borders is still way down from previous years.

Trump is showing that it's possible to get things done in Washington.

Without a stupid wall.

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[watisthis]

The number of illegal immigrants crossing our borders is still way down from previous years.

Trump is showing that it's possible to get things done in Washington.

Are you giving your opinion, or do you have a source? Because last year was the worst in a long time which was a direct reflection of Trumps lack of policy and detention.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

Illegal immigration has been trending down for years.

 

[Hack]

Without a stupid wall.

There has been wall added and AFAIK adding the wall has helped. Some areas are very easy to cross if there's no wall, but other areas are difficult even without a wall. It just depends on where the cities, roads, mountains, etc. are.

Not sure why a wall is stupid. Nearly everyone in the world uses walls. They actually do their job well.

 

[watisthis]

There has been wall added and AFAIK adding the wall has helped. Some areas are very easy to cross if there's no wall, but other areas are difficult even without a wall. It just depends on where the cities, roads, mountains, etc. are.

Not sure why a wall is stupid. Nearly everyone in the world uses walls. They actually do their job well.

Agreed, walls in most cases work extremely well when built with a plan and purpose. Placing physical barriers strategically along the boarder in key points dictate where crossing will or most likely take place. Thus making monitoring high traffic zones much easier, but the cost benefit analysis just isn't there.

To get specific on that the majority of the cost of building a wall is getting the land to build a wall, and that is not all accounted for in any link I've seen proposed by main stream media. Not only is the cost of materials but land as well would be outrageously expensive, far more than what illegal immigrations costs us currently. Obviously we still need to police up immigration policy and the like.

Moreover, the 5th amendment says something on the lines of 'nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.' This clause means that to acquire land to build a wall the gov't must compensate the people who currently own said property. This process is extremely long as the Bush administration still has cases in court from the late 2000s about buying property.

The value of said property can also be exceptionally high, such as, the land owned by SpaceX which is used as a launch site. The property needed for a launch site is extremely hard to find in the US and might be impossible to buy.

Also, see previous post of pew research showing an outflow of illegal immigrants, we also know crossings are at a fairly low level aside from last year which I would assume is Trumps attempt to inflate statistics as a way to get his base up in arms.

I could speak on this further, but I assume you don't actually care to be open minded.

 

[kz]

There has been wall added and AFAIK adding the wall has helped. Some areas are very easy to cross if there's no wall, but other areas are difficult even without a wall. It just depends on where the cities, roads, mountains, etc. are.

Not sure why a wall is stupid. Nearly everyone in the world uses walls. They actually do their job well.

How much wall has actually been built last ~three years ? Curious if you know...

 

[The Chairman]

How much wall has actually been built last ~three years ? Curious if you know...

10 feet maybe...
Ask the Chinese, or French or anyone else if their money spent a wall was worth it. The response is always no.

 

[Silver Bullitt]

How much wall has actually been built last ~three years ? Curious if you know...

As of the end of 2019, approximately 80 miles, but the majority has been upgrades to existing inferior border fences as in the picture below. As mentioned earlier, the biggest hurdle is in acquiring the land rights.

 

[kz]

As of the end of 2019, approximately 80 miles, but the majority has been upgrades to existing inferior border fences as in the picture below. As mentioned earlier, the biggest hurdle is in acquiring the land rights.

So how exactly that 80 miles of wall on 2000+ miles long border helped with limiting immigration ? Upgrades in existing border fences has been planned long ago.

 

[Jimmy Dean]

10 feet maybe...
Ask the Chinese, or French or anyone else if their money spent a wall was worth it. The response is always no.

If you ask the Chinese, they would say very well.

If you ask the French, they would say they should've built it along the entire border, not just along the border with enemies, but with the one with friends.

the Israelis would say it works well, but they could use more guns.

The Japanese would say they need even more water between them and neighbors.

The British would say 'Fuck the EU making out water and walls useless.

Mexico would be asking for a wall at their own southern border.

Damn near every first world country's people are asking for more walls and regulations. Even places such as Denmark which have no direct reason for walls are asking for more restraints by the EU to immigration. And yet some fucktards here in the US want to prevent us building boarder security, and yet they bitch when their sanctuary city goes to hell in a hand basket with crime and high real estate prices (hello Californians, fuck you. Stay out of Texas and Louisiana thank you very much. You've already fucked up Austin, leave the rest of us alone with your bullshit.)

 

[watisthis]

If you ask the Chinese, they would say very well.

If you ask the French, they would say they should've built it along the entire border, not just along the border with enemies, but with the one with friends.

the Israelis would say it works well, but they could use more guns.

The Japanese would say they need even more water between them and neighbors.

The British would say 'Fuck the EU making out water and walls useless.

Mexico would be asking for a wall at their own southern border.

Damn near every first world country's people are asking for more walls and regulations. Even places such as Denmark which have no direct reason for walls are asking for more restraints by the EU to immigration. And yet some fucktards here in the US want to prevent us building boarder security, and yet they bitch when their sanctuary city goes to hell in a hand basket with crime and high real estate prices (hello Californians, fuck you. Stay out of Texas and Louisiana thank you very much. You've already fucked up Austin, leave the rest of us alone with your bullshit.)

Lmao! Imagine thinking the sole cause of all your problems is illegal immigration.

Look, I understand how a wall seems like a common sense solution if your goal is to keep people out. If you're one of those people who thinks there is some sort of immigration crisis wherein we're being flooded by illegals, which we're not, by the way; we've been experiencing an outflow of illegal immigrants since the late 2000s, see my prior post, although I can see how that option might be attractive by its simplicity.

The problem is, its simply a ridiculous idea. Firstly, there is no credible estimate that suggests the wall will be a net positive boost to the economy. This wall would be one of the most expensive pieces of infrastructure ever built paid for by the middle and lower classes who float the tax burden whether it be now or later as our budget deficit is ballooning even further at break neck speeds. If you're a conservative, and part of the 'fiscal responsibility' camp, you're a hypocrite, as you're only fiscally responsible when its other peoples money you're talking about.

Secondly, border crossing themselves are at an all time low which predates Trump's presidency by many years, however, you might think 'well sure, we're protecting our border better and a wall will only help.' When in fact, this is likely due to a great many variables none of which have ever involved a wall. You could say its Mexico's economy doing better alleviating pressure to migrate.

Lastly, a vast majority of illegal immigrants are a product of visa overstays, making up over 40% of illegal immigrants. A wall will not keep these people out, this is only rhetoric to get you out to vote based off misinformation and anger for someone who could not otherwise win.

As a layered security measure, sure a wall would address the issue of illegal immigration, however, it is nearsighted. The solution to illegal immigration may actually be less security as noted by https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/08/18/donald-trump-immigration-border/.

If you read that article, Prior to Reagan things were working pretty well. Immigrants would come to the US, work a bit, and then cross back. However, during Reagan we poured millions into border security, which then caused the immigrant population to explode due to those migrants were not stuck in the US unable or unwilling to make the now expensive and dangerous trek back home. This was continued and increased throughout the Clinton and Bush presidencies and came with an even larger increase in undocumented immigrant populations.

Opening up borders reduces illegal immigration as documented by our immigration history, also, until the demand for low cost labor subsides, we Americans need to stop pinning our internal problems on external 'threats' when in reality the root causes lay deep without our own borders.

 

[Jimmy Dean]

Lmao! Imagine thinking the sole cause of all your problems is illegal immigration.

Look, I understand how a wall seems like a common sense solution if your goal is to keep people out. If you're one of those people who thinks there is some sort of immigration crisis wherein we're being flooded by illegals, which we're not, by the way; we've been experiencing an outflow of illegal immigrants since the late 2000s, see my prior post, although I can see how that option might be attractive by its simplicity.

The problem is, its simply a ridiculous idea. Firstly, there is no credible estimate that suggests the wall will be a net positive boost to the economy. This wall would be one of the most expensive pieces of infrastructure ever built paid for by the middle and lower classes who float the tax burden whether it be now or later as our budget deficit is ballooning even further at break neck speeds. If you're a conservative, and part of the 'fiscal responsibility' camp, you're a hypocrite, as you're only fiscally responsible when its other peoples money you're talking about.

Secondly, border crossing themselves are at an all time low which predates Trump's presidency by many years, however, you might think 'well sure, we're protecting our border better and a wall will only help.' When in fact, this is likely due to a great many variables none of which have ever involved a wall. You could say its Mexico's economy doing better alleviating pressure to migrate.

Lastly, a vast majority of illegal immigrants are a product of visa overstays, making up over 40% of illegal immigrants. A wall will not keep these people out, this is only rhetoric to get you out to vote based off misinformation and anger for someone who could not otherwise win.

As a layered security measure, sure a wall would address the issue of illegal immigration, however, it is nearsighted. The solution to illegal immigration may actually be less security as noted by https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/08/18/donald-trump-immigration-border/.

If you read that article, Prior to Reagan things were working pretty well. Immigrants would come to the US, work a bit, and then cross back. However, during Reagan we poured millions into border security, which then caused the immigrant population to explode due to those migrants were not stuck in the US unable or unwilling to make the now expensive and dangerous trek back home. This was continued and increased throughout the Clinton and Bush presidencies and came with an even larger increase in undocumented immigrant populations.

Opening up borders reduces illegal immigration as documented by our immigration history, also, until the demand for low cost labor subsides, we Americans need to stop pinning our internal problems on external 'threats' when in reality the root causes lay deep without our own borders.

Christ man this is a lot to unpack.
A) Most of the things I listed are not even about illegal immigration. The walls were there to slow/stop invading armies. the question was merely how would these groups in history respond when asked about spending money on a wall.

You don't like the answer that most of them are happy they had them when they did, or wish that they had more.

B) I never put anything in on my position or opinion on problems or immigration. Merely answered a question honestly and accurately, not making shit up like you are doing right now.

C) economics was never part of the question that was asked, and was not part of my response. Just stop man...

D) "Lastly, a vast majority of illegal immigrants are a product of visa overstays, making up over 40% of illegal immigrants. A wall will not keep these people out, this is only rhetoric to get you out to vote based off misinformation and anger for someone who could not otherwise win." Yeah, go take a statistics class. or math. or logic....just...anything. Come on man, 'A vast majority' and '40%' are not the same damn thing. In fact, completely the opposite. 40% is not a majority, much less a VAST majority.

You really are not even worth having a discussion much less an argument with you grasping at nothing like that.

 

[watisthis]

A) Most of the things I listed are not even about illegal immigration. The walls were there to slow/stop invading armies. the question was merely how would these groups in history respond when asked about spending money on a wall.

So you're arguing that we need a border wall to prevent invading armies and that you are in no way suggesting this would be for anything else such as illegal immigration? Yes, let's ask the 7th-century how they would deal with modern armies. How ridiculous are you?

B) I never put anything in on my position or opinion on problems or immigration. Merely answered a question honestly and accurately, not making shit up like you are doing right now.

What? The last point you made was literally about immigration. What am I making up?

C) economics was never part of the question that was asked, and was not part of my response. Just stop man...

How does one build a wall without money? The wall would have already been built had it not been for the economics of it.

D) "Lastly, a vast majority of illegal immigrants are a product of visa overstays, making up over 40% of illegal immigrants. A wall will not keep these people out, this is only rhetoric to get you out to vote based off misinformation and anger for someone who could not otherwise win." Yeah, go take a statistics class. or math. or logic....just...anything. Come on man, 'A vast majority' and '40%' are not the same damn thing. In fact, completely the opposite. 40% is not a majority, much less a VAST majority.

https://cmsny.org/publications/essay-2017-undocumented-and-overstays/ Calm down buddy, it is the largest percentage of all illegal immigration.

You really are not even worth having a discussion much less an argument with you grasping at nothing like that.

Sweet dude, do us all a favor and leave.

 

[Silver Bullitt]

So how exactly that 80 miles of wall on 2000+ miles long border helped with limiting immigration ? Upgrades in existing border fences has been planned long ago.

Not sure where in my reply I insinuated that 80 miles of border wall has helped limit immigration. You asked how much wall had been built. The answer is approximately 80 miles.

 

[kz]

Not sure where in my reply I insinuated that 80 miles of border wall has helped limit immigration. You asked how much wall had been built. The answer is approximately 80 miles.

I apologize - that question shouldn't be addressed to you.

 

[Hack]

So how exactly that 80 miles of wall on 2000+ miles long border helped with limiting immigration ? Upgrades in existing border fences has been planned long ago.

So you are a rigid ideologue and hate Trump. I get it. But would it take you longer to get somewhere if you had to walk for miles to get around a wall versus just walking or driving straight across between two cities?

Asserting that walls are stupid or that they don't work doesn't make sense to me. If you want to hate on Trump or the border wall, come up with a better argument. Maybe say you hate the border wall because it's the wrong color and clashes with your shoes. But don't try to say that walls don't work. That's complete nonsense.

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