2019 5.2 Voodoo Bbq / typewriter tick

[Tomster]

Drive the car and enjoy it. Get the documentation it's normal in case you ever want to sell the car.

Sponsored

 

[Rubyred17]

I’m going to do my best to relay the info dealer told me. They tracked noise to cylinder 4 lower bearing. After the service manager spoke to a Ford engineer he said this completely normal and some car exhibit this and some not (just like 5.0 and some going back to 2011), but apparently this hasn’t been tracked to any catastrophic failures in the past or any premature wear. And it’s normal. Supposedly. But let’s be optimistic here. The way I understood what’s happening was that the bearings are supposed to have a layer of pressurized oil around the crank as a layer of protection from friction, and the noise we hearing is slight drop in the that pressure. Apparently it’s minuscule, e.g. correct pressure is 30psi and actual is 28 or 29 (not using realistic values here because he didn’t provide any).
Although this begs the question of how isn’t this going to lead to premature wear on the motor if the there is slightest amount of friction? Supposedly it’s more apparent with the a/c condenser running because slight oil pressure loss when the ac is running.

He also told me they had motor with this symptom pinned at 6000RPMs for 60k miles without any issues. C8 vettes apparently have the same tick. Additives like ceratec work or running thinner oil is a “fix”, but isn’t this really putting a bandaid on a problem? He told me not to call it a problem, because it’s not, but at this point I’m bit more hesitant to take their advice and I’d rather be cautious than anything else. Also I would imagine thinner oil would substantially decrease a layer of protection a track day when the car is running hard.

Since this appears to happen after the first oil change, I asked if there is break oil but he didn’t know nor did the engineer. Strange.

I could push back, which would result in flying an engineer to perform tests, but they would 99% deem it as normal. Pushing further may result in another motor with a condition of “this would be the last replacement” as we deemed it normal and you etc.

I may turn to Amsoil after this and see what happens, but I refuse to add any additives. The noise completely disappears when ac is turned off and I think I’ll wait to see if bothers me more. From the first motor replacement I got my premium warranty extended to August 2022 so I have some time to brew on it. Not sure if this relieved some anxiety or added more at this point. Anyhow hope this kind of helped.

Thank you for the explanation- I wish my dealer would have gone into that level of detail. They called a field service engineer in to look at mine and after a week they declared it normal (although mine is much more pronounced than your). I too extended my warranty and plan to just enjoy the car. It was interesting they mentioned Ceratech- were they suggesting you add it? I would bet that if you had a failure they would void teh warranty by telling you its unauthorized in the manual. I run Amsoil and it still does it so I am not sure if that will make a difference.

Best of luck!

 

[Condor1970]

if it is some kind of cavitation, or even a lifter that makes noise when at a lower pressure, I think the real "FIX" is to figure out a way for owners to have the oil pressure pump bypass close further, so it runs at 30psi at idle, instead of 12-15psi like the GT's do. I think because the GT's have such a low idle oil pressure, this is the main reason why there is a boat load of GT's that have the BBQ tick.

 

[GT Pony]

I’m going to do my best to relay the info dealer told me. They tracked noise to cylinder 4 lower bearing. After the service manager spoke to a Ford engineer he said this completely normal and some car exhibit this and some not (just like 5.0 and some going back to 2011), but apparently this hasn’t been tracked to any catastrophic failures in the past or any premature wear. And it’s normal. Supposedly. But let’s be optimistic here. The way I understood what’s happening was that the bearings are supposed to have a layer of pressurized oil around the crank as a layer of protection from friction, and the noise we hearing is slight drop in the that pressure. Apparently it’s minuscule, e.g. correct pressure is 30psi and actual is 28 or 29 (not using realistic values here because he didn’t provide any).
Although this begs the question of how isn’t this going to lead to premature wear on the motor if the there is slightest amount of friction? Supposedly it’s more apparent with the a/c condenser running because slight oil pressure loss when the ac is running.

He also told me they had motor with this symptom pinned at 6000RPMs for 60k miles without any issues. C8 vettes apparently have the same tick. Additives like ceratec work or running thinner oil is a “fix”, but isn’t this really putting a bandaid on a problem? He told me not to call it a problem, because it’s not, but at this point I’m bit more hesitant to take their advice and I’d rather be cautious than anything else. Also I would imagine thinner oil would substantially decrease a layer of protection a track day when the car is running hard.

Since this appears to happen after the first oil change, I asked if there is break oil but he didn’t know nor did the engineer. Strange.

I could push back, which would result in flying an engineer to perform tests, but they would 99% deem it as normal. Pushing further may result in another motor with a condition of “this would be the last replacement” as we deemed it normal and you etc.

I may turn to Amsoil after this and see what happens, but I refuse to add any additives. The noise completely disappears when ac is turned off and I think I’ll wait to see if bothers me more. From the first motor replacement I got my premium warranty extended to August 2022 so I have some time to brew on it. Not sure if this relieved some anxiety or added more at this point. Anyhow hope this kind of helped.

So was the rod #4 bearing out of spec - did they measure the clearance? Was is scored or otherwise worn in some way? What made them conclude it was the rod #4 bearing, and say it was "OK". Seems like double speak from Ford.

Did they measure the rod big end side clearance while in there looking around?

If you study journal bearings, feeding a journal bearing with oil under pressure is a super minuscule factor in their lubrication and the developed oil film they ride on. The pumped oil is just to ensure an oil supply is at the inlet to the bearing - it really has nothing to do with the super thin oil film that a journal bearing developed and rides on; that's determined mainly by the physical design of the bearing, the oil viscosity, bearing RPM.

However, if the oil pressure is too low to actually cause a lack of oil flow below what the journal bearing would naturally "pump" itself from rotating, then that could be a problem. But I highly doubt 28 or 29 psi instead of 30 psi of oil pressure it going to break into that "lack of oil flow volume to the bearing inlet" threshold.

If you have the AC off and it's ticking, then you raise the RPM just a hair (like 100 RPM, a needle width on the gauge) with the gas pedal, does the ticking then go away or stay there?

 

[hiiammarcin]

So was the rod #4 bearing out of spec - did they measure the clearance? Was is scored or otherwise worn in some way? What made them conclude it was the rod #4 bearing, and say it was "OK". Seems like double speak from Ford.

Did they measure the rod big end side clearance while in there looking around?

If you study journal bearings, feeding a journal bearing with oil under pressure is a super minuscule factor in their lubrication and the developed oil film they ride on. The pumped oil is just to ensure an oil supply is at the inlet to the bearing - it really has nothing to do with the super thin oil film that a journal bearing developed and rides on; that's determined mainly by the physical design of the bearing, the oil viscosity, bearing RPM.

However, if the oil pressure is too low to actually cause a lack of oil flow below what the journal bearing would naturally "pump" itself from rotating, then that could be a problem. But I highly doubt 28 or 29 psi instead of 30 psi of oil pressure it going to break into that "lack of oil flow volume to the bearing inlet" threshold.

If you have the AC off and it's ticking, then you raise the RPM just a hair (like 100 RPM, a needle width on the gauge) with the gas pedal, does the ticking then go away or stay there?

I tried this today and I couldn’t hear anything with the ac off. Perhaps it’s there but just more quieter. I’ll have to investigate with someone else playing with a throttle while I listen.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

That sounds exactly like the bbq/typewtiter tick. On the plus side, apart from being annoying, there haven't been any issues linked to it. It's been beaten to death across multiple forums so that's saying something.

Doesn’t sound like the infamous “Typewriter” tick at all in terms of the intervals in between the clicks. The 5.0 motors with the issue have a constant, fast ticking noise that in my opinion clearly sounds like piston slap and appears to increase with internal engine rotation.

My new ‘20 has 350 miles on it and I’ve heard this noise at idle only from day one after a long drive. I attributed the noise to an exhaust/ heat shield noise due to the slow, erratic and overall “infrequent” nature of the sound. I’d say my metal ticking noises are spaced about 5 seconds apart when I do hear it and they aren’t consistent at all. Someone mentioned similar noises in Corvette engines and I do remember my last ‘15 Stingray with the LT1 engine made similar noises after a long drive.

So far I have no abnormal noises at cold start up, during warm up or while driving at 190-200 oil temp.

 

[Dfeeds]

Doesn’t sound like the infamous “Typewriter” tick at all in terms of the intervals in between the clicks. The 5.0 motors with the issue have a constant, fast ticking noise that in my opinion clearly sounds like piston slap and appears to increase with internal engine rotation.

My new ‘20 has 350 miles on it and I’ve heard this noise at idle only from day one after a long drive. I attributed the noise to an exhaust/ heat shield noise due to the slow, erratic and overall “infrequent” nature of the sound. I’d say my metal ticking noises are spaced about 5 seconds apart when I do hear it and they aren’t consistent at all. Someone mentioned similar noises in Corvette engines and I do remember my last ‘15 Stingray with the LT1 engine made similar noises after a long drive.

So far I have no abnormal noises at cold start up, during warm up or while driving at 190-200 oil temp.

You're thinking of the 2k rattle. The two sounds are completely different. This is definitely what the bbq tick sounds like

 

[GT Pony]

It’s doesn’t appear to be rhythmic, nor the RPMs have an impact on the noise pattern.

So you can still hear the randon ticking at a higher RPM than idle? Can you hear it at 1000, 1500, 2000 RPM if holding those rev points in neutral in the garage?

 

[CoolHandLuke]

You're thinking of the 2k rattle. The two sounds are completely different. This is definitely what the bbq tick sounds like

As stated earlier, I am speaking specifically of the "frequency" of the tick. I understand what you're saying and I've scoured youtube regarding this topic. If you take the time to do the same thing, you too will find that the vast majority of the 5.0 motor noises occur at IDLE SPEED. The sound is faster and much more "rhythmic" in nature. When you watch the different videos and then listen to the ticking noise, compare the noise to the exhaust pulses...then listen to the OP's GT350 video. There is a big difference.

Wait a minute, I think I've figured this whole thing out! There is a tiny typewriter in the engine bay and also a hamster (who powers the car) typing a letter to Ford sympathizing with them over the countless videos being created on YouTube, creating just enough worry and mass hysteria that no one can enjoy their cars anymore.

 

[hiiammarcin]

So you can still hear the randon ticking at a higher RPM than idle? Can you hear it at 1000, 1500, 2000 RPM if holding those rev points in neutral in the garage?

no, it dissipates anything over idle

 

[Tank]

no, it dissipates anything over idle

A bit late in the diagnostic process but you might want to consider getting a remote microphone and do what you can to pinpoint the source before you bring ‘er in.

 

[UnhandledException]

Just FYI, this ticking noise is something I had since day 1 when car was cold. It doesnt happen when car is warm. I always thought this was piston slap.

that being said, my car now at 54,0000 miles shows elevated lead levels and I am worried of bearings going out.

 

[GrabberBlue]

Someone posted about this specific tick on the Facebook group. It has to do with the oiling system, they isolated the sound using a stethoscope to around the oil filter housing area. Which makes sense why it would start making noise after the first oil change.

 

[martinjlm]

nope but it’s more evident with ac turned on

Does that mean it's present but barely when the AC is off or not evident at al when the AC is off? If it's not there at all when AC is off, I'd be looking at the AC compressor. I'm thinking this because it does vary with the engine speed. I'd think a #4 bearing issue would vary with engine speed.

 

[ihc95]

My theory all along on the typewriter tick has been mild oil cavitaion. The response from the Ford engineer seems to confirm this. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it since we've seen Coyotes run 100k+ miles no problem with this symptom. If the sound itself bothers you, Ceratec has been proven to cure it among the 5.0 community.

Sponsored