BBQ Tick After Oil Change...

[Burgo]

The weird thing about the tick is that it isn't even consistent. It kind of comes and goes and doesn't even align itself with any revolutions of the crank. Anyway, I was convinced that my second hand 2017 didn't have the tick until four days ago when I had an oil change done (5W/30 @ 30,000kms).
When I got home from the dealer and checked my oil I discovered that the dealer had overfilled my oil by around 2L but there wasn't any tick, so I drained out the excess to the correct level and sure enough there was this inconsistent tick when I fired it back up. Not happy!

So off I went to my local auto parts store and grabbed a can of Liqui-Moly MOS2 and chucked it in and went for a twenty minute drive, got home and absolutely zero tick and my whole motor is whisper quite like a Prius, happy happy!!

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[accel]

So off I went to my local auto parts store and grabbed a can of Liqui-Moly MOS2 and chucked it in and went for a twenty minute drive, got home and absolutely zero tick and my whole motor is whisper quite like a Prius, happy happy!!

Interesting, as LM MOs2 so far had no impact on tick (unlike ceratec). Tested MOS2 myself as well, - tick stayed.

 

[Condor1970]

Interesting, as LM MOs2 so far had no impact on tick (unlike ceratec). Tested MOS2 myself as well, - tick stayed.

yep, first I've heard it works.

As far as I know, the only additives I know that work is Ceratec, XL-17 (basically dirty oil), and Tribotex.

Also, the diesel guys say that Archoil 9100 works on the same typewriter tick found in the Duramax and PowerStroke engines.

 

[TheLion70x77]

Something interesting:

shop manual rod to bearing clearance range is 0.0011 to 0.0027 for the 2015-2018 5.0 (that's what my manual says).

Ford Performance lists the Aluminator 5.2L Voodoo (580 HP, 445 ft-lbs) with the same 0.0011 to 0.0027 rod to bearing clearance range.

They also list both the regular 5.0 and the Aluminator 5.2L Voodoo with the same nominal and maximum rod end side to side clearances. I wonder if any of the Aluminators make the typewriter / BBQ Ignitor Tick?

I suspect they don't because ford specs out 5W-50 for the Aluminator. Obviously it's to compensate for high thermal loads (oil thinning) and higher rpm operation that necessitate greater film thickness that a 50 weight provides.

At least that does put to rest that there is no issues running 5W-20 all the way up to 5W-50 as far as rod bearing clearances are concerned. It just depends on your operating temperature range and condions that will dictate viscosity. But if your not getting the oil into the 260-280F range, your only increasing drag unnecessarily.

5W-20 at 210F will provide the same film strength as 5W-50 at about 280F (assuming same clearances and loads). It's all about heat!

https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/instructionsheets/FORDINSTSHTM-6007-A52XS.PDF

Albiet 5W-50 for street, drag strip, auto-x will only result in less power to the wheels, higher bearing temperatures without added benefits to the bearings because your not running the 5W-20 hot enough to necessitate a thicker film. For HPDE sessions on the stock cooling system, 5W-50 all the way. For HPDE sessions with an Air to Oil cooler, 5W-20 or 5W-30. 5-15W-40 is pointless, HTHS isn't meaningfully higher than 30 weights. You have to step up to 20-25W-40's to get meaningfully higher HTHS.

It's also interesting that some people report increased mechanical noise (intensity) on higher viscosity while others report the complete opposite. My guess is that the fairly wide tolerance range and broad range of ambient, including unique modifications to each engine etc. all impact weather going up or down in viscosity (within reason) helps or makes it worse.

I know my GT started ticking loudly at idle on Ravenol 5W-20. 8.5cSt at 100c, but HTHS of 2.9. It was fine up until 1,500 miles on the oil, then it started ticking loudly. Switched back to MC 5W-20 (new SN Plus formula) and it immediately went back to normal....but I'm also running TriboTEX DLC coatings, so my tolerances may be a bit on the tighter side with better oil adhesion due to the coating. I'm pondering trying up to PUP 5W-30 or Valvoline's 5W-30. Ran well on PUP 5W-20 (before TriboTEX) and M1 5W-20 (after TriboTEX).

Thinner oils: Better cooling, thinner oils simply conduct heat more efficiently even at an equivalent flow rate. Lower drag, more power to the wheels and better fuel economy. Easier cold start.

Thicker oils: Better film strength at an equivalent temperature OR allows adequate film strength at elevated temperatures. Inferior cooling and higher drag compared to thinner oils. Very thick oils may use a lot of VI's to get to the viscosity and shear down permanently, giving you no real benefit towards the end of their service life.

Positive Displacement Pump (Ge-rotor): flows the same amount of oil, thick or thin. Fluids are in-compressible. So using a thicker oil will result in higher pumping losses (greater oil pressure) and more drag in the bearings as well as increased heat at a given temp (inferior thermal conductivity), however they will provide a greater film strength at the given temp or allow you to safely operate at a higher temperature.

King Bearings Film Thickness Calculations on a 2" bearing with a 0.002 clearance at a 7,000 PSI load:
4,500 RPM: 22.5 micro inches for 0W-20 and 25 micro inches for 10W-30
8,000 RPM: 45 micro inches for 0W-20 and 50 micro inches for 10W-30

Pretty similar for 20 and 30 weights, but 30 weight buys you an extra 30F operating temperature (more sustained higher rpm) with minimal increase in drag at lower temps (street driving). King Bearings AND Clevite both state the ideal viscosity for most common bearing loads and sizes is around 10cSt at 100C for a 0.002" clearance. Balances the trade offs in greater film strength with drag losses and heating. Thin 5W-30's are usually around 10cSt at 100C and thick 5W-20's are around 8.7 to 9.0 cSt at 100C for reference.

I emailed Dr. Dmiti Kopeliovich and this was his response to me regarding 20 vs. 30 weight with a 0.002" clearance (nominal):

I do not think that difference between the oil grades is very significant, but in order to make a conclusion a series of hydrodynamic calculations should be performed.

I wasn't going to pay $1,500 for the calculations, but his response falls in line with "you can run either 5W-20 or 5W-30 just fine" and also coincides with everything above. Ford Performance said the same thing.

 

[TheLion70x77]

Also I think I figured out why the differences in oil viscosity year to year and generation to generation.

2011-2014 S197 (1st Gen 5.0 and Road Runner 5.0)

Standard GT - Ford Spec 5W-20: NO oil cooler. ECU has management mechanisms build in to limit torque then the oil gets too hot to protect the bearings.

Track Pack GT - Ford Spec 5W-50: Water to Oil cooler (same as Boss 302 and S550's), but I believe it still has a 1" radiator. ECU does NOT limit torque when the oil heats up. ECU is calibrated differently to compensate for the slower cam phasor response at normal temperatures. They do respond slower with thick oils at normal operating temps. But they respond faster once the oil heats up on the track to give you optimal throttle response and torque. These cars will literally make more power once they get hot and let you keep doing it.

Boss 302 GT - Ford Spec 5W-50: Water to Oil cooler. Similar to track pack GT's, ECU lets you run it hard and it's really optimized to make maximum power under elevated track conditions. For normal street use, your just wasting a little extra energy pumping 50 weight at 210F and the Road Runner may respond a bit sluggishly until it heats up. Rod bearing to crank clearance range is essentially the same but with a narrower spread at 0.0020 to 0.0025 as opposed to 0.0011 to 0.0027 for regular 5.0's. Side to side clearance remains un-changed. That's likely because this was a low volume special variant, not mass production.

2015-2017 S550 GT (2nd Gen 5.0 and Voodoo 5.2L FPC)

Standard GT - Ford Spec 5W-20 for US, 5W-30 for Austraila and UK (originally specked 5W-20 for Austraila then changed the user manual in the 3rd revision, same engine, same car, it is not different internally). Water to Oil cooler with 1" radiator. ECU calibration is far more complex than the 1st gen. Very conservative on timing as well. Limits torque when temps get into the danger zone.

Performance Package GT - Ford Spec 5W-20 for US, 5W-30 for Austraila / UK? Water to Oil cooler with 1.5" radiator that has 20% higher cooling capacity. Not sure if it's offered in an Austraila / UK or if only the regular GT's are. UK GT's do have a different ECU calibration than US due to emissions requirements. Limits torque when temps get into the danger zone.

GT350/R - Ford Spec 5W-50: Air to Oil cooler on track pack variants, otherwise water to air, thermostat controlled on both. ECU still pulls power if things get too hot (diff, oil and I believe trans too). May be dangerous, but I'm assuming the production 5.2L will be the same as the regular 5.0 and Aluminator 5.2L from Ford Performance regarding rod to bearing and side to side clearances.

2018+ S550 GT (3rd Gen 5.0 and Voodoo 5.2L FPC)

Standard GT - Ford Spec 5W-20 for road use and 5W-30 for track use. Water to Oil cooler with 1" radiator. Limits torque when temps get into the danger zone.

Performance Package 1/2 GT - Ford Spec 5W-20 for road use and 5W-30 for track use. Water to Oil cooler with 1.5" radiator that has 20% higher cooling capacity. Limits torque when temps get into the danger zone.

GT350/R - Ford Spec 5W-50: Air to Oil cooler on track pack variants, thermostat controlled. ECU still pulls power if things get too hot (diff, oil and I believe trans too). All variants now come with diff and oil cooler?

Also interesting:

2016-2019 Camaro SS (5th Gen LT1 6.2L)

1/2SS: 5W-30 for street and 0-5W-40 for track. Water to Oil cooler. Liquid to liquid diff cooler.

1LE: 5W-30 for street and 0-5W-40 for track. Air to Oil cooler. Liquid to liquid diff cooler.

From the manual:

Track Events and
Competitive Driving
6.2L (LT1) Engine
Change the engine oil to 0W-40 or
5W-40 that meets the dexos2™
specification. If this oil is not
available, the following oils can be
used as an alternative: Valvoline®
SYNPOWER MST 5W-40, Mobil® 1
ESP Formula M 5W-40. See
Capacities and Specifications 0 331.

 

[BHRS]

Also I think I figured out why the differences in oil viscosity year to year and generation to generation.

2011-2014 S197 (1st Gen 5.0 and Road Runner 5.0)

Standard GT - Ford Spec 5W-20: NO oil cooler. ECU has management mechanisms build in to limit torque then the oil gets too hot to protect the bearings.

Track Pack GT - Ford Spec 5W-50: Water to Oil cooler (same as Boss 302 and S550's), but I believe it still has a 1" radiator. ECU does NOT limit torque when the oil heats up. ECU is calibrated differently to compensate for the slower cam phasor response at normal temperatures. They do respond slower with thick oils at normal operating temps. But they respond faster once the oil heats up on the track to give you optimal throttle response and torque. These cars will literally make more power once they get hot and let you keep doing it.

Boss 302 GT - Ford Spec 5W-50: Water to Oil cooler. Similar to track pack GT's, ECU lets you run it hard and it's really optimized to make maximum power under elevated track conditions. For normal street use, your just wasting a little extra energy pumping 50 weight at 210F and the Road Runner may respond a bit sluggishly until it heats up. Rod bearing to crank clearance range is essentially the same but with a narrower spread at 0.0020 to 0.0025 as opposed to 0.0011 to 0.0027 for regular 5.0's. Side to side clearance remains un-changed. That's likely because this was a low volume special variant, not mass production.

2015-2017 S550 GT (2nd Gen 5.0 and Voodoo 5.2L FPC)

Standard GT - Ford Spec 5W-20 for US, 5W-30 for Austraila and UK (originally specked 5W-20 for Austraila then changed the user manual in the 3rd revision, same engine, same car, it is not different internally). Water to Oil cooler with 1" radiator. ECU calibration is far more complex than the 1st gen. Very conservative on timing as well. Limits torque when temps get into the danger zone.

Performance Package GT - Ford Spec 5W-20 for US, 5W-30 for Austraila / UK? Water to Oil cooler with 1.5" radiator that has 20% higher cooling capacity. Not sure if it's offered in an Austraila / UK or if only the regular GT's are. UK GT's do have a different ECU calibration than US due to emissions requirements. Limits torque when temps get into the danger zone.

GT350/R - Ford Spec 5W-50: Air to Oil cooler on track pack variants, otherwise water to air, thermostat controlled on both. ECU still pulls power if things get too hot (diff, oil and I believe trans too). May be dangerous, but I'm assuming the production 5.2L will be the same as the regular 5.0 and Aluminator 5.2L from Ford Performance regarding rod to bearing and side to side clearances.

2018+ S550 GT (3rd Gen 5.0 and Voodoo 5.2L FPC)

Standard GT - Ford Spec 5W-20 for road use and 5W-30 for track use. Water to Oil cooler with 1" radiator. Limits torque when temps get into the danger zone.

Performance Package 1/2 GT - Ford Spec 5W-20 for road use and 5W-30 for track use. Water to Oil cooler with 1.5" radiator that has 20% higher cooling capacity. Limits torque when temps get into the danger zone.

GT350/R - Ford Spec 5W-50: Air to Oil cooler on track pack variants, thermostat controlled. ECU still pulls power if things get too hot (diff, oil and I believe trans too). All variants now come with diff and oil cooler?

Also interesting:

2016-2019 Camaro SS (5th Gen LT1 6.2L)

1/2SS: 5W-30 for street and 0-5W-40 for track. Water to Oil cooler. Liquid to liquid diff cooler.

1LE: 5W-30 for street and 0-5W-40 for track. Air to Oil cooler. Liquid to liquid diff cooler.

From the manual:

Track Events and
Competitive Driving
6.2L (LT1) Engine
Change the engine oil to 0W-40 or
5W-40 that meets the dexos2™
specification. If this oil is not
available, the following oils can be
used as an alternative: Valvoline®
SYNPOWER MST 5W-40, Mobil® 1
ESP Formula M 5W-40. See
Capacities and Specifications 0 331.

Do you know why the UK cars have 5W30 recommended if temp is one of the underlying issues going with a lighter oil? I don't have a dog in this fight as my '15 LE doesn't have a tick, but curious as to why 5W30 is used in UK when the climate is on the cooler side. I live in Texas and it can range from 20 degrees in the winter (short term) to 110 degrees July thru September. I am currently running MC 5W20, but considering 5W30. Right now I have 15K and I hope that at this mileage I shouldn't worry about the tick, but I also do not want to change oil weight and create a problem.

 

[GT Pony]

I live in Texas and it can range from 20 degrees in the winter (short term) to 110 degrees July thru September. I am currently running MC 5W20, but considering 5W30. Right now I have 15K and I hope that at this mileage I shouldn't worry about the tick, but I also do not want to change oil weight and create a problem.

I never had the BBQ tick, but still went to 5W-30 (Valvoline Advanced full synthetic) at 4000 miles and the engine sounds even better than it did on 5W-20 Motorcraft synthetic blend. Going to 5W-30 would be ideal in hot Texas IMO.

 

[GT Pony]

Something interesting:

shop manual rod to bearing clearance range is 0.0011 to 0.0027 for the 2015-2018 5.0 (that's what my manual says).

Ford Performance lists the Aluminator 5.2L Voodoo (580 HP, 445 ft-lbs) with the same 0.0011 to 0.0027 rod to bearing clearance range.

They also list both the regular 5.0 and the Aluminator 5.2L Voodoo with the same nominal and maximum rod end side to side clearances. I wonder if any of the Aluminators make the typewriter / BBQ Ignitor Tick?

I suspect they don't because ford specs out 5W-50 for the Aluminator.

Engine parts and all those engines are probably made in different places, so hard to say the manufacturing QA involved in each case. If they all have the same parts clearances and are all made to within those specs, then I'd think they should all either tick or not tick.

But we all know even all Coyotes don't sound the same, so the BBQ tick has to be parts clearance related IMO. I'm still going with excessive rod side clearance as the cause. Why did you come back under a new username Lion?

 

[TheLion70x77]

Engine parts and all those engines are probably made in different places, so hard to say the manufacturing QA involved in each case. If they all have the same parts clearances and are all made to within those specs, then I'd think they should all either tick or not tick.

But we all know even all Coyotes don't sound the same, so the BBQ tick has to be parts clearance related IMO. I'm still going with excessive rod side clearance as the cause. Why did you come back under a new username Lion?

We are in agreement on this. I haven't found anything else that seems likely to cause that. It also makes sense why temperature affects many of the 5.0's as does Ceratek / TriboTEX / Archoil as well as oil viscosity. There are quite a few reports of it "quieting down" after hard driving as well, but then returning once temperatures settle back down.

Remember they have to run the 5.0 a bit loose as well because of the high RPM operation (piston to cylinder wall clearances). Heat builds up precipitously past 4k and this engine makes its power in the upper rpm ranges unlike it's big bore push-rod brothers. They also have to run wide enough clearances for FI heat loads because they have the FP / Rousch Super Charger kits that are CARB legal and covered under warranty.

Clearances shrink as parts heat up and expand even if the oil thins out. But it depends on how much and how big the clearances are on each particular engine, weight of oil, oil formula, condition of engine, how sensitive the person is to noise...so many variables that are unique to each owner.

BTW, the 5.0 isn't the only engine. I found a bunch of videos of the 2016+ SS's develop ticks now too. Same with the Hemi 392's and well the Hemi tick is well known in general for all variants of it. I know GM had a lot of customer complains about the LS in 97 because of piston slap when the engine was cold. They had to run enough clearance between the cylinder wall and pistons to account for higher expansion of the aluminum block and thin iron sleeves for heat, the aluminum block also transmitted noise quite a bit more as well.

 

[TheLion70x77]

Cam-phasor response speed IS affected by oil viscosity however, I did some extensive R on the Borg Warner CTA system and more common vane style phasors. Small viscosity changes aren't a problem, but large jumps do cause them to fill and bleed slowly, so the phasor can't advance or retard as fast as it needs to and consequently valve timing is no optimal. You'll make less power, more so than just the result of increased drag losses.

However that situation would be more akin to running 5W-40 or 5W-50 on the street. It's not going to heat up enough to thin out to 20 or 30 weight. Sluggish response will result in non-ideal valve timing and consequently less power. So 5W-40 and 5W-50 is a bit much for street, but not for track where the oil will thin back out once it heats up. But yes, even on the track you'll be making less power until you get up to track temps.

But back to street use, 20 and 30 weights are pretty close and we have proof in the Australian and UK versions they are interchangeable. UK is tuned differently due to emissions, however I don't believe the Australian version is as it has the same rated power output as the US version. They are all made to the same clearances and tolerances.

 

[TheLion70x77]

UK cars use 5W20, it's the Aussies that use 5W30. I had my first oil change last week (I'm in the UK), still no tick.

US 2018's call for 5W-20 for street and 5W-30 for track use. I'll bet your UK version also calls for 5W-30 for track and 5W-20 for street also if you look carefully at the manual's fluid capacity section.

2015-2017 Aussie GT's originally called for 5W-20, then they changed the user manual and up specced it to 5W-30. 2015-2017 US GT's have always called for 5W-20. But should be just fine on 5W-30, especially in hot ambient temps or with frequent high RPM use where the oil heats up.

 

[nonozor]

hi all , even if i have not the bbq tick but i have the 2k rattle . Checked my oil level , it was at 1/4, i added half a liter to reach 3/4. And now my rattle is almost gone. Would it be possible that oil level change also the tick noise , helping cylinder surface lubrification? anyone did some testing by adding a bit more oil to test (within the limits of course),

 

[Mrmarkmac]

hi all , even if i have not the bbq tick but i have the 2k rattle . Checked my oil level , it was at 1/4, i added half a liter to reach 3/4. And now my rattle is almost gone. Would it be possible that oil level change also the tick noise , helping cylinder surface lubrification? anyone did some testing by adding a bit more oil to test (within the limits of course),

Very similar to my situation. Here's what I wrote in another thread about my recent experience with the "normal tick". I topped my oil right to the max. I'm monitoring it now to make sure its nor actually burning it, and it was actually delivered 2 quarts down.

My tick started 700 miles off the dealer lot. It was not there when I test drove it, or for the first month owning it. Then bam, started and loud, to the point of embarrassing to drive a Mustang GT. It sounded pathetic.

Since new, I’ve had to add 2 qts of oil. When I first noticed it was down I added a quart. Checked it a few weeks later, and it was in middle of hash mark so I added 3/4 of quart.

Before the official ford TSB that it’s “normal”, my car was at the dealer 3 weeks while they were trouble shooting it. After 3 weeks, they said drive it, and see if it gets worse or blows up. Although my tick started way before oil change, so TSB doesn’t match my case.

About 3 weeks ago, at 2500 miles on factory oil, I topped the oil right to the max on the dipstick cold, covering top hole hot (added last 1/4 quart I had from 2 quarts I bought, bringing it to exactly 2 qts added since new). Maybe it’s coincidence, but since I topped it right to the max, the tick has been reduced probably 80%-90%. It’s still there faintly after dropping in idle after cold start, and after shifting into D, holding brake with a little load on the engine, maybe 1,000-1,300 RPM. I can just hear it faintly in garage, or near a wall. After 3-5 min, it’s completely gone. Just starting cold and letting sit idle, I hear nothing now. I use to hear it very clearly, as did Ford tech just at idle.

I’m not positive, but I now believe mine was one of the cars delivered with 8 quarts from Ford. I’m going to keep checking oil weekly to see if it drops any. I’m also worried about other fluid levels like transmission, as I saw others have found that to be low from factory new.

Have not used any additives. No ceratec. Been using regular and supreme fuel. Added MC Synthetic blend 5w20 for top up.

Either age of oil, or level of oil has made a noticeable difference. Seems to coincidental that with top off using new oil; it dropped in volume.

Honestly, if I had not had the loud ‘ normal factory ford’ tick, I probably wouldn’t notice the mild tick I have today.

And here is what my tick originally sounded like. Need to jump ahead to around 0:25 when it starts in the video.

 

[GT Pony]

hi all , even if i have not the bbq tick but i have the 2k rattle . Checked my oil level , it was at 1/4, i added half a liter to reach 3/4. And now my rattle is almost gone. Would it be possible that oil level change also the tick noise , helping cylinder surface lubrification? anyone did some testing by adding a bit more oil to test (within the limits of course),

Seems very strange that adding 1/2 L or 1/2 qt of oil would change the way the engine sounds, especially when the oil level is always in the correct oil level zone on the dipstick.

 

[Condor1970]

My level was on the mid-low end of the dipstick, so I added oil to the top. Made no difference.

Then, changed to PUP 5w30. Still no difference.

Only thing that made a difference, was a bottle of German goo.

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