BBQ tick - another attempt to understand

[GT Pony]

Heck, maybe it really is just an oil cavitation issue. That would explain an awful lot, if true.

From a technical, engineering standpoint, oil cavitation is the only explanation that makes sense.

I was hoping someone would mention oil cavitation again because I have a data point that will help kibosh that theory. There is a member here (forgot his handle, maybe he can chime in) that had the BBQ tick and then ran Ceratec for many thousands of miles, and that cured the ticking right after the Ceratec was added to the oil. He then changed the oil with many thousands of miles on it and ran no Ceratec with the new oil, and there still was no ticking even though there was no new Ceratec added.

So, if it was oil cavitation (and assume that Ceratec did influence oil cavitation), one would think that with the new oil and no Ceratec that it would start ticking again, but it didn't. Ceratec is advertised to last even after the oil is changed because the anti-wear coating on parts bonds and stays. So what that shows is that again the ticking is influenced by the mechanical friction between parts. If there is too much clearance (ie, rod side) then it's possible that different levels of friction causes the rod to dance side-to-side on the journal and make impact ticking noises. I'm still in that theory boat.

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[GT Pony]

If that's the case, why would it be quiet when new, then develop after driving for a few thousand miles of use? Then, get even worse with an oil change? It's baffling to me.

Not to mention (again) that oil cavitation in journal bearings is more likely with thick oil (Google it). So if that's the case then the BBQ tick should be the worse right after a cold start-up ... not after the engine warms up and the oil thins out.

 

[GT Pony]

Lack of evidence showing the rods hitting each other to the point of causing damge also tells me the type writter tick is not rod to rod or rod to journal contact.

A slight impact like that will never show any wear or damage ... it's just enough impact to make a ticking noise.

The small amount of impact done with this guys hand is making a noticeable ticking noise, but he could do that continuously for 5 years and never make the parts show wear.

 

[ihc95]

I was hoping someone would mention oil cavitation again because I have a data point that will help kibosh that theory. There is a member here (forgot his handle, maybe he can chime in) that had the BBQ tick and then ran Ceratec for many thousands of miles, and that cured the ticking right after the Ceratec was added to the oil. He then changed the oil with many thousands of miles on it and ran no Ceratec with the new oil, and there still was no ticking even though there was no new Ceratec added.

So, if it was oil cavitation (and assume that Ceratec did influence oil cavitation), one would think that with the new oil and no Ceratec that it would start ticking again, but it didn't. Ceratec is advertised to last even after the oil is changed because the anti-wear coating on parts bonds and stays. So what that shows is that again the ticking is influenced by the mechanical friction between parts. If there is too much clearance (ie, rod side) then it's possible that different levels of friction causes the rod to dance side-to-side on the journal and make impact ticking noises. I'm still in that theory boat.

I hear what you're saying, but my data point to kind of kill the clearance theory is that my tick as well as most others' tick comes and goes somewhat randomly. If it was the impact noises from the clearance causing the tick, the noise would not come and go and should always be present. Also, the ticking is definitely more present after a cold start and virtually gone when the engine is fully warm, supporting the fact that the oil tends to cavitate while it is thicker. Also, I haven't heard my tick since I changed to full synthetic oil back in November. I don't believe full synthetic oil will get rid of impact noises due to clearance (but I'm honestly not sure).

Regardless of what the actual cause is, I think we're all coming to the conclusion that the tick will not damage the engine. The biggest problem with this forum and social media is that actual engines problems and damage (which there definitely are some) are getting bunched together with this "tick" thing and now everyone with a tick thinks their engine is shot.

 

[GT Pony]

I hear what you're saying, but my data point to kind of kill the clearance theory is that my tick as well as most others' tick comes and goes somewhat randomly. If it was the impact noises from the clearance causing the tick, the noise would not come and go and should always be present. Also, the ticking is definitely more present after a cold start and virtually gone when the engine is fully warm, supporting the fact that the oil tends to cavitate while it is thicker. Also, I haven't heard my tick since I changed to full synthetic oil back in November. I don't believe full synthetic oil will get rid of impact noises due to clearance (but I'm honestly not sure).

Regardless of what the actual cause is, I think we're all coming to the conclusion that the tick will not damage the engine. The biggest problem with this forum and social media is that actual engines problems and damage (which there definitely are some) are getting bunched together with this "tick" thing and now everyone with a tick thinks their engine is shot.

Fords SSM about the BBQ tick says it shows up after the oil warms up some. You have a 2018, so maybe your "ticking" is really some level of cold piston slap ... hard to say.

I do believe different oil formulations can have an impact on parts impacting and making noise. You read many times (ref: bobistheoilguy) that using one oil brand and/or viscosity does change how quiet or noisy an engine sounds - different levels of parts cushioning from impacts and friction levels. As you said, oil does go through more changes than most people think as the miles get put on the oil, so that maybe be why the ticking comes and goes over the time the oil is being ran.

 

[MasterCylinder]

A slight impact like that will never show any wear or damage ... it's just enough impact to make a ticking noise.

The small amount of impact done with this guys hand is making a noticeable ticking noise, but he could do that continuously for 5 years and never make the parts show wear.

So what's the fix to this?

 

[GT Pony]

So what's the fix to this?

Ceratec ... seems most guys who have just the BBQ tick have good results with it. Many years ago, the Ford Field Engineers would recommend the Motorcraft XL-17 carbon additive (no longer sold) to quiet down the ticking, which also worked.

 

[MasterCylinder]

Eh. I'd rather have a fix instead of a bandaid.

 

[GT Pony]

Eh. I'd rather have a fix instead of a bandaid.

New short block ... which doesn't seem to guarantee the fix is permanent. If the BBQ tick is indeed excessive rod side clearance, and Ceratec makes it go away, then that fix is probably just as good as taking a chance on a new short block.

But my feeling is guys won't be getting any short blocks anymore based on the SSM from Ford about the BBQ tick.

 

[GT 550]

The biggest problem with this forum and social media is that actual engines problems and damage (which there definitely are some) are getting bunched together with this "tick" thing and now everyone with a tick thinks their engine is shot.

I see your point and also suggest that Ford's handling of the issue has magnified the problem. Doesn't do much for their cred when they initially treat it as an issue serious enough to warrant engine replacement, put people through the hassle of warranty work, and then change their mind and say it's normal all without stooping to tell the folks who've shelled out their hard earned what the reason is. Seriously...

I'd hate to now be someone who's car has any type of ticking noise and refers it to a dealer, I think I know what they'll get told. Then if their car does stop...back to the dealer that told them it's normal. Awesome.

It's of their own making that car companies have never been up there in the trust ratings, and this is an example of why. The longer they behave this way, the longer the issue stays alive.

I suspect if Ford provided an explanation (and yes there'd still be some discussion about the veracity of their explanation) instead of stonewalling it'd quell a fair bit of the chatter, at least around longevity which I suspect is at the root of most folks' concerns. It also might help dealers diagnose the issue when the tick isn't 'the tick'.

(None of this has probably made a jot of difference to sales, as I suspect was the case with the ac evap, so it's unlikely to be resolved any time soon)

 

[accel]

From a technical, engineering standpoint, oil cavitation is the only explanation that makes sense.

If you google for oil cavitation, pretty much all sources say it is very harmful for the engine. So it wouldn't be just bubbles bursting for the fun of it. It should be causing component damage.

I.e. - oil cavitation exists in pretty much all engines to some degree. But if it results in bubble burst, that's pretty bad and not normal.

I'm not saying it is not oil cavitation. To the opposite, it makes sense to be cavitation due to randomness, consistency between all affected cars, which wouldn't be the case if we had different number of affected components. I wonder why engines with the tick last so long.

 

[ihc95]

If you google for oil cavitation, pretty much all sources say it is very harmful for the engine. So it wouldn't be just bubbles bursting for the fun of it. It should be causing component damage.

I.e. - oil cavitation exists in pretty much all engines to some degree. But if it results in bubble burst, that's pretty bad and not normal.

I'm not saying it is not oil cavitation. To the opposite, it makes sense to be cavitation due to randomness, consistency between all affected cars, which wouldn't be the case if we had different number of affected components. I wonder why engines with the tick last so long.

Yeah I guess it would depend on the severity of the cavitation. Maybe it's enough to cause a tick sound but not enough to cause engine damage. Who knows

 

[accel]

Yeah I guess it would depend on the severity of the cavitation. Maybe it's enough to cause a tick sound but not enough to cause engine damage. Who knows

from what I understand bubble burst (tick) is very severe oil cavitation stage.

 

[GT Pony]

If you google for oil cavitation, pretty much all sources say it is very harmful for the engine. So it wouldn't be just bubbles bursting for the fun of it. It should be causing component damage.

I.e. - oil cavitation exists in pretty much all engines to some degree. But if it results in bubble burst, that's pretty bad and not normal.

I'm not saying it is not oil cavitation. To the opposite, it makes sense to be cavitation due to randomness, consistency between all affected cars, which wouldn't be the case if we had different number of affected components. I wonder why engines with the tick last so long.

The thing I keep asking is why is it only the Coyote (and a few specific diesel engines) that tick from oil cavitation if that's really the cause? There are literally millions of cars and trucks on the road, yet I don't hear ticking cars surrounding me constantly. If it's oil cavitation in the journal bearings, then what's so different about the journal bearings in the tickers? I mean journal bearing are all essentially the same design ... are they really that sensitive to oil cavitation to a level of making ticking noises from bubble implosions?

And yes, everything I've read says that cavitation in bearings can do some damage ... yet Ford indicates in their "typewriter tick" SSM that it doesn't pose any damage risk. So I'm still sticking to the excessive rod side clearance theory.

 

[Condor1970]

Honestly I can stand all these theories. It's just that...theories. Why the heck doesn't Ford just tell us exactly the cause?

They obviously know.

SO, yeah, if it was just cavitation, and the tick develops with aging oil on the original fill, you would think it would go away when you change the oil to fresh oil. Yet, with mine it didn't. It got even more noticeable. After driving for a while on new oil, it started slowly going away again as the oil aged. Just plain weird. On my 3rd oil change, it came back with vengeance using PUP 5w30. So much it was virtually constant like a rod knock. I added a bottle of Ceratec, and it just flat out vanished, and hasn't been back since. 3,000+ miles with Ceratec, and it's still quiet as a mouse.

I'm really curious to see what it will do when I change oil next. I plan on switching to QSUD 5w30, which is similar to PUP in that it has about 80% GTL, and 20% hydro-cracked oil. We'll see.

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