Whipple or hellion

[Zrussian13]

Something in that basket is incompatible. Regardless of engine configuration, if you have the front and rear 02's installed and haven't turned off the code in the tune, it will instantly recognize an issue with catalytic efficiency and throw a code. So either it's turned off in the tune or the sensors aren't working. Most likely the tune because I'm pretty sure if either the upstream or down stream 02 sensor goes it it throws a code because it can't verify cat efficiency

It's lund tuned post epa debacle so they were very clear on leaving everything on. Plus I verified everything went green before trying the emissions test. I will agree with you it doesn't sound right and I knew going in I'd probably need to do something to get the o2s to go green but for some unexplainable reason I never did. Kit was installed 3 years ago and from day one looked like it was going to miraculously pass with no trickery but I never needed to confirm it until today. I guess some things can't be explained by science!

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[Angrey]

It's lund tuned post epa debacle so they were very clear on leaving everything on. Plus I verified everything went green before trying the emissions test. I will agree with you it doesn't sound right and I knew going in I'd probably need to do something to get the o2s to go green but for some unexplainable reason I never did. Kit was installed 3 years ago and from day one looked like it was going to miraculously pass with no trickery but I never needed to confirm it until today. I guess some things can't be explained by science!

I'd honestly be worried and work to figure out what's going on. Something's not working properly. You should ABSOLUTELY get a code if everything is working as it should. I'm guessing that the code notification is turned off in the tune.

I guess there's some really weird and obscure possibility that the front 02's are reporting as they should (I think you'd have other issues if they weren't) and the rear 02's are sending some weird signal that the PCM has determined a reduction in 02 content between the front and back.

Somewhere in the bowels of this forum, I read a thread that suggested you need the rear 02's for "calibration" purposes to keep the front 02's from drifting as well. Which doesn't make sense to me because if the rear 02's are expecting a cat reduction, how could they recenter the fronts correctly?

 

[Zrussian13]

I'd honestly be worried and work to figure out what's going on. Something's not working properly. You should ABSOLUTELY get a code if everything is working as it should. I'm guessing that the code notification is turned off in the tune.

I guess there's some really weird and obscure possibility that the front 02's are reporting as they should (I think you'd have other issues if they weren't) and the rear 02's are sending some weird signal that the PCM has determined a reduction in 02 content between the front and back.

Somewhere in the bowels of this forum, I read a thread that suggested you need the rear 02's for "calibration" purposes to keep the front 02's from drifting as well. Which doesn't make sense to me because if the rear 02's are expecting a cat reduction, how could they recenter the fronts correctly?

Well I'm hoping I can unlock my tune and get Mike to do some updated tuning in the near future so maybe we can figure that out. It's lund tuned so to think they went above and beyond to make my set up pass emissions sounds crazy lol.

If they turned the cat code off that would involve disabling the rear o2s though right? Which would in turn prevent my o2 monitors from ever setting to ready. So from what little I know about tuning you get one or the other. No code or monitors active. Right?

 

[Angrey]

Well I'm hoping I can unlock my tune and get Mike to do some updated tuning in the near future so maybe we can figure that out. It's lund tuned so to think they went above and beyond to make my set up pass emissions sounds crazy lol.

If they turned the cat code off that would involve disabling the rear o2s though right? Which would in turn prevent my o2 monitors from ever setting to ready. So from what little I know about tuning you get one or the other. No code or monitors active. Right?

I'm guessing there's a couple different methods. You can turn off code notifications permanently. I had my previous tuner do it for my fuel sender/level codes that kept popping up because of disconnecting the passenger side level sender. Computer recognizes it as an issue but just doesn't report it.

 

[Zrussian13]

I'm guessing there's a couple different methods. You can turn off code notifications permanently. I had my previous tuner do it for my fuel sender/level codes that kept popping up because of disconnecting the passenger side level sender. Computer recognizes it as an issue but just doesn't report it.

It's a possibility but either way my monitors are green and life is good. I still cant imagine they would do that after the previous issues though. Any other hellion sleeper guys notice anything one way or another???

 

[Wolfys11]

I'd honestly be worried and work to figure out what's going on. Something's not working properly. You should ABSOLUTELY get a code if everything is working as it should. I'm guessing that the code notification is turned off in the tune.

I guess there's some really weird and obscure possibility that the front 02's are reporting as they should (I think you'd have other issues if they weren't) and the rear 02's are sending some weird signal that the PCM has determined a reduction in 02 content between the front and back.

Somewhere in the bowels of this forum, I read a thread that suggested you need the rear 02's for "calibration" purposes to keep the front 02's from drifting as well. Which doesn't make sense to me because if the rear 02's are expecting a cat reduction, how could they recenter the fronts correctly?

I know in bmw they use post cats and pre cats for long term and short term fuel trims, i forget which is which

in theory if you put catted o2 sensor extenders the sensors themselves will read as if the car is catted, and should tune properly

Im running them and never had an issue with codes or inspections on 2 mustangs now, i have one on a minicooper and it runs well as well

Its very weird he was able to inspect, but it is possible that the sensor locations are helping enough to pass, maybe theyre spaced out or something

 

[Zrussian13]

I know in bmw they use post cats and pre cats for long term and short term fuel trims, i forget which is which

in theory if you put catted o2 sensor extenders the sensors themselves will read as if the car is catted, and should tune properly

Im running them and never had an issue with codes or inspections on 2 mustangs now, i have one on a minicooper and it runs well as well

Its very weird he was able to inspect, but it is possible that the sensor locations are helping enough to pass, maybe theyre spaced out or something

Yes typically defoulers would be the fix here on the rear 02s. Still not sure why I didn't have to go that route....

 

[HKusp]

Yes typically defoulers would be the fix here on the rear 02s. Still not sure why I didn't have to go that route....

It could also be the angle at which the exhaust gas is being sampled, or the depth at which your O2's are placed in the bung has just enough shrouding that they are able to be fooled and are going green.

 

[Zrussian13]

It could also be the angle at which the exhaust gas is being sampled, or the depth at which your O2's are placed in the bung has just enough shrouding that they are able to be fooled and are going green.

Could be? I've also thought it recirculates enough air maybe it's fooling the rears? I've brought this up in multiple threads since my install years ago and I haven't had one other turbo guy comment one way or the other. I'd love to know if others with the sleeper kit are experiencing this too or I actually have a unicorn. I even wondered if the new engine may behave differently and no longer allow the rears to set with out a code but everything is the same.

 

[wazslow]

Could be? I've also thought it recirculates enough air maybe it's fooling the rears? I've brought this up in multiple threads since my install years ago and I haven't had one other turbo guy comment one way or the other. I'd love to know if others with the sleeper kit are experiencing this too or I actually have a unicorn. I even wondered if the new engine may behave differently and no longer allow the rears to set with out a code but everything is the same.

I have the Hellion Sleeper setup. My car is driven less than 5,000 miles/year, so I don't have to get emissions done in PA. So, I never looked into it. I have never had a check engine light come on, although I'm not sure if that means anything.

 

[Zrussian13]

I have the Hellion Sleeper setup. My car is driven less than 5,000 miles/year, so I don't have to get emissions done in PA. So, I never looked into it. I have never had a check engine light come on, although I'm not sure if that means anything.

Well if you get bored some time hook up an obd2 scanner and see if all your monitors are set and green!

 

[wazslow]

Well if you get bored some time hook up an obd2 scanner and see if all your monitors are set and green!

I think I can check on my Ngauge. Next time I drive the car, I'll take a look.

 

[Zrussian13]

I think I can check on my Ngauge. Next time I drive the car, I'll take a look.

Yeah ngauge definitely has that feature. Being you have no check engine light, either your rear o2s are off or it is acting just like mine and everything is set.

 

[Angrey]

Yeah ngauge definitely has that feature. Being you have no check engine light, either your rear o2s are off or it is acting just like mine and everything is set.

Does the kit feature some unique bung location/dimension that's different somehow to typical long tube locations?

The reason I was skeptical that it's not turned off is that some guys, even with defoulers STILL get codes. You have to shroud/hide the sensor tip enough to where it can't sample the full stream and therefore sends a reduced signal, which the computer takes as a reduction in 02 content and therefore infers that the catalytic converter is doing it's job and burning off additional combustible materials prior to reaching the rear sensors.

Maybe we're ignoring the obvious, does the exhaust piping featured in the kit already have an inherent "defouler" configuration to it?

That may be the case. But if not, if it's just a typical O2 bung in the typical distance from the fronts, then it's HIGHLY likely it's just disabled in the tune. Again, some guys put the spacers on and it still gives them grief.

 

[Angrey]

Does the kit feature some unique bung location/dimension that's different somehow to typical long tube locations?

The reason I was skeptical that it's not turned off is that some guys, even with defoulers STILL get codes. You have to shroud/hide the sensor tip enough to where it can't sample the full stream and therefore sends a reduced signal, which the computer takes as a reduction in 02 content and therefore infers that the catalytic converter is doing it's job and burning off additional combustible materials prior to reaching the rear sensors.

Maybe we're ignoring the obvious, does the exhaust piping featured in the kit already have an inherent "defouler" configuration to it?

That may be the case. But if not, if it's just a typical O2 bung in the typical distance from the fronts, then it's HIGHLY likely it's just disabled in the tune. Again, some guys put the spacers on and it still gives them grief.

Which brings up the NEXT topic/question. If the defoulers artificially reduce the 02 measured signal, then how do they keep the wide bands "calibrated?" I'd imagine that if you were going to use the narrow band sensor as a home base, then it would have to incorporate a reduction value (i.e. if it's expecting a catalytic converter to reduce the O2 content, then the only way it can sense any drift in the front O2's is based upon an anticipated reduced value to the rear.) So if you're tricking or fooling them, then that adjustment factor is probably not spot on or exactly the same. What do the tuners do (previously) if the rear O2's are some sorta calibration check?

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