What's The Difference??

[FinitePrimus]

This looks like a big lawsuit with Ford's name on it waiting to happen. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.

It sounds like bone stock, the systems work well. Where the issues come into play is if you modify anything on the car e.g. grippier tires, better brakes, suspension, altered weight/ratio etc.

They most definitely should have an option to turn off all nannies for those who accept those risks. It sounds particularly worse as you may be under the sense the controls are off and then the car behaves in a way you didn't expect it to - catching you off guard and leading to a collision.

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[Vlad Soare]

It sounds like bone stock, the systems work well.

That may be, but it doesn't change the fact that they work when they're supposed not to. This alone should be enough reason for a lawsuit.
Using stickier tyres and better brakes is something that's supposed to increase safety, not decrease it, isn't it? So you can't reasonably be expected to know that you'll be killed if you do it, or that the user's manual won't be valid anymore if you do it.

 

[NoVaGT]

FWIW, even putting the car into Track mode still means TC is on. There's just less of it.

I'm not even sure if holding the button for several seconds until "AdvanceTrac Disabled" is displayed, really completely turns off AdvanceTrac.

But I doubt it.

 

[Vlad Soare]

I'm not even sure if holding the button for several seconds until "AdvanceTrac Disabled" is displayed, really completely turns off AdvanceTrac.

Quite the opposite, we're increasingly sure that it doesn't. Which to me looks like a major blunder and a strong enough reason for a lawsuit against Ford.

 

[Redfuzzbutt]

There was someone who tested this theory via fuse pull at a race track and that was his theory on why so many Mustangs crash at the cars and coffees. What happened in his testing is that at the extreme when he was really trying to sling the rear around the ESC would kick in and start to correct, causing the car to quickly regain traction and try to point the car straight - while it was sideways. This could cause you to go from a controlled sideways slide (leaving the car show show-off) into quickly the car regaining traction and driving straight into the crowd. When he disabled it completely via fuse pull, this behavior didn't happen.

If that's the case, a word of caution with deliberate disabling and trying to pull stunts without enough space for the recovery.

Not sure how accurate he is, but it makes some sense...

I commented about this on another thread, how the system manipulates the dynamics of the car and brings unexpected results. IE, I expect car to do this and it does that.
I've had instances where I was doing a controlled maneuver and the system engaged (different manufacture), causing a panic/quick reaction from me to counter the safety reaction.
Back in the early 2000's, I was a sales rep for Nissan and we had VDC (vehicle dynamics control) on a number of trucks and SUV's. To demonstrate how it worked on an Armada, would take customer to a large empty parking lot, turn steering wheel one direction till locked, and have them gradually step on the gas till a nice circular motion was being driven. After a round or two, you tell the customer to floor it.
After some typical coaxing and the customer did it, you'd hear the ABS engaging and throttle being retarded while the vehicle maintained a slightly wider but consistent driving circle.
If I remember correctly, I think it had a total of 7 sensors that contributed to the input of the system. One for each wheel (ABS for wheel rotation), a yaw/pitch sensor, G force sensor, and another for steering wheel position. Maybe that's 8, but whatever. That was the gist of it.

 

[NightmareMoon]

I can say confidently that at least on the S550, if you hold TC button for 7 seconds and the dash says advancetrak is off, its really all off. There is no mystery front wheel stability control correction. I’ve driven enough laps with the nannies off to say that with 100% certainty. I won’t make that claim for the S197, but after over 7 sets of track tires on an S550 in all conditions and states of sideways, no that’s not a thing on this generation of mustang.

Now, it /can/ error out and reboot if its off. Which causes it to turn itself fully back on. That’s rare, but it can happen. Its always accompanied by a chime and an error message on the dash cluster, then the nannies all go live. I’ve seen that after hitting a bump, pothole, track curb or large seam in the pavement, and its very rare.

 

[young at heart]

AdvanceTrac is mentioned at several places in the user's manual (though I agree it's difficult to understand exactly what it refers to, since they don't explain it). Besides, when you hold the TC button for more than five seconds, you'll get a message saying "AdvanceTrac Off".
AdvanceTrac is Ford's trademark for the entire system, TC+ESC.

OK. I’ve read it once again. There is nowhere in the 2020 Mustang owner’s manual where the word “AdvanceTrac” appears. I would respectfully challenge anyone to prove me wrong. I think this must be a vestige of an earlier year that people just hang on to, but it’s not there in 2020.

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to learn.

 

[NightmareMoon]

OK. I’ve read it once again. There is nowhere in the 2020 Mustang owner’s manual where the word “AdvanceTrac” appears. I would respectfully challenge anyone to prove me wrong. I think this must be a vestige of an earlier year that people just hang on to, but it’s not there in 2020.

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to learn.

It looks like they phased out the term AdvanceTrac(tm). Its just called Stability Control now
https://www.fordservicecontent.com/...&userMarket=USA&div=f&vFilteringEnabled=False

 

[Vlad Soare]

OK. I’ve read it once again. There is nowhere in the 2020 Mustang owner’s manual where the word “AdvanceTrac” appears. I would respectfully challenge anyone to prove me wrong. I think this must be a vestige of an earlier year that people just hang on to, but it’s not there in 2020.

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to learn.

https://owner.ford.com/tools/account/how-tos/owner-manuals.html?year=2020&make=Ford&model=Mustang

Select either the on-line version, or the PDF, then search for the word AdvanceTrac. You'll find a few matches.
For instance:

or:

Also, try to disable it in your car and see what the instrument panel says.

 

[Vlad Soare]

Here's the same page from my printed 2020 manual:

 

[young at heart]

Here's the same page from my printed 2020 manual:

Vlad, you are exactly right. And, when I disable ESC in my vehicle it does say ”AdvanceTrac off”. But that’s it! Nowhere in the sections on TC or ESC can this be found. I think you’re right; Ford is looking to get themselves sued over this. Something this important to vehicle control should be much clearer and easier to find in the owner’s manual. And I can assure you that nobody at Ford you can get on the phone knows either. I’ve been trying for weeks to simply find out officially if Drag Strip driving mode automatically disables TC as it does in Track Mode (the TC Disabled light does not come on in DS Mode like it does in Track Mode) and they can’t even tell me that.

 

[Vlad Soare]

You want to hear something funny? I tried to disable it today, and what do you know? It didn't say "AdvanceTrac Off". It said "ESC Off".

 

[AdamIsAdam]

As described earlier, a quick tap of the button turns traction control off (Burnout time). A long hold of 5-10 seconds of the button also turns off stability control (YouTube crash time).

When I first got my GT350, I was not satisfied with the manual's explanations of the differences between modes (normal, sport, track, drag strip, weather). So I called Ford Performance. What I was able to get out of them is that the higher up you go in modes (ie, Normal to Sport to Track) the more yaw the system will allow before saving you. I asked for more details and was told it's proprietary. They said it's not uncommon for Chevy to call and try to find out programming details! Go figure.

Now, I've played with settings and I will say this: turning off stability control on the street is very risky. I've pushed the car in parking lots and been able to overcome the stability control with it on, meaning, I was able to get the car to spin out of control even with nannies on. You cannot argue with the laws of physics.

Also, if you're on the track, you should probably leave it in Sport unless you are good enough to find that the car is faster with it off. Then move to Track. The computer really allows for a good amount of fun before reining things in - at least that's the case for the GT350.

That's what I know so far. Your results may vary.

 

[inspecto]

you guys crack me up

 

[Cadrms]

There is a lot of banter on this topic and my tiny brain is trying to comprehend. Anyone speak idiot on here to translate for the noob? I have a 19 bullitt. If I flick traction control off the car will let me spin the tires but keep stability on. I've seen that. I have never held the toggle up to turn off the stability. So my question is, in track mode doesn't all the stability turn off? I've done some cookies some autocross and barrel racing with it in track mode and I've never felt the car take over.

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