Voodoo how long will it last?

[btown93]

What I personally find interesting about this discussion is that in most of the failures of these engines there are videos. In those videos, the car is STILL RUNNING and has a lower end knock. If the OPG failed, would this be possible?

also, in regards to it being a "cost saving measure". I do agree that cost is a major factor in any vehicle. Based on some of the in depth articles about this engine, It runs contrary to so many things that the OPG is what they decided to "cost cut" on. Some of the details such as fabricated headers, weight reduction in cylinder heads, deck plate honing, and on and on and on.....

In the end, what doesn't make sense to me is that there is no equation where saving $200/ car or less on an oil pump is a better idea than replacing $20,000 engines. seems like a recipe to go bankrupt.

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[Hack]

You can believe whomever you'd like. Yes I have been reading a lot here and on other sites. It's a weak link. You don't need to believe me. Ask any shop that does modifications to the GT350. Ask them the first stock parts to get replaced when doing a build with more power. Ask any user who added more power and ask them if the OPG came up when talking about a build.

I'm entitled to my opinion just like you are. You don't need to agree with it and frankly, I don't care. TO ME, the OPG is a weak link.

You trust Ford engineers huh? So you think it was an engineer who put a cast OPG into a VOODOO huh? Pretty naive. The bean counters that already had a working OPG put it in. It's a cost savings measure, nothing more. :cheers:

You just insist on ragging on Ford and the Voodoo. I can tell you I find it irritating. If you had good points it would be a different story.

You ask a shop - what do you think they are going to say? "No, the OPG is fine, so don't spend any money with us?" They have a vested interest in saying that the OPG needs replacement. I would say it's pretty naive of you to assume that shops don't want you to spend money with them.

Believe me, the accountants can't and won't over-rule the engineers when a part is likely to fail. Especially if that part can cause the failure of very expensive assemblies that will cost much, much more than the amount needed to upgrade the original part. This isn't naivete on my part; merely logical thinking.

 

[nastang87xx]

The same could be said about Hellcats and their driveshafts about weak links. A car is a system and all systems tend to have some soft spots here and there. Considering Ford went around the country and ran durability tests tracking for 24 hours stopping only for fuel and consumables replacements, I think I'll be okay. If I start stacking up power, then I'll do what I know should be done to fortify my system. Until then, I'm content at 526 horsepower running around Road America.

 

[Zombo]

You can believe whomever you'd like. Yes I have been reading a lot here and on other sites. It's a weak link. You don't need to believe me. Ask any shop that does modifications to the GT350. Ask them the first stock parts to get replaced when doing a build with more power. Ask any user who added more power and ask them if the OPG came up when talking about a build.

I'm entitled to my opinion just like you are. You don't need to agree with it and frankly, I don't care. TO ME, the OPG is a weak link.

You trust Ford engineers huh? So you think it was an engineer who put a cast OPG into a VOODOO huh? Pretty naive. The bean counters that already had a working OPG put it in. It's a cost savings measure, nothing more. :cheers:

So, with all the costly, application specific high performance componentry that goes into the Voodoo: New casting tooling for the deck plate honed, spray bore block and high flow CNC ported heads, sodium filled exhaust valves, forged aluminum pistons, forged steel fracture split rods, cross bolted mains, integrated composite sump - You believe the bean counters prevented the engineers from upgrading the OPG? Hell, they throw away more cost in head bolts and gaskets honing each block than an upgraded OPG would cost. I think, as a deign engineer myself, I'll side with the engineers - the existing OPG meets/exceeds all the design requirements - I'm not concerned, and it's just common sense not to load up or rev up an engine until it is up to operating temperature.

 

[Mike02z]

This thread was to discuss possible longevity concerns with the VOODOO. The entire thread is nothing but opinions. I never said the OPG WOULD blow up. I just said it is a weak link that may cause longevity issues down the road.

Is the OPG a possible source of longevity issues? Yes. Did it keep me up at night or did I think about it often, no. Was I worried mine would blow up, no. Would I worry if I was putting a blower on? Absolutely but then I'd have it replaced if I had gone that way.
[MENTION=19878]btown93[/MENTION], If you have ever worked with the bean counters it's all about the numbers. Ford has a good idea of how many engines will blow due to the OPG. They factor in the R&D costs to design a new OPG as well as manufacturing costs and material costs. They then look at their tables and see x% engines will need to be replaced due to the cast OPG. If those engine replacements cost less than all the work to get a forged OPG, they stick with the same OPG. They also like the fact that one OPG serves multiple engines. Again, lower costs.

 

[Forgedwheeler]

You can believe whomever you'd like. Yes I have been reading a lot here and on other sites. It's a weak link. You don't need to believe me. Ask any shop that does modifications to the GT350. Ask them the first stock parts to get replaced when doing a build with more power. Ask any user who added more power and ask them if the OPG came up when talking about a build.

I'm entitled to my opinion just like you are. You don't need to agree with it and frankly, I don't care. TO ME, the OPG is a weak link.

You trust Ford engineers huh? So you think it was an engineer who put a cast OPG into a VOODOO huh? Pretty naive. The bean counters that already had a working OPG put it in. It's a cost savings measure, nothing more. :cheers:

Ford is well aware of the materials they use in OPGs. They specified a billet pump on some of the supercharged designs due to the torsional bending loads on the crank snout.
The powdered metal isn't just for cost savings. Powdered metal gears can be made EXTREMELY accurate, holding close tolerances that are very difficult for machined gears. These close tolerances allow the Voodoo to make very high oil pressure, even at idle. Switch to billet gears and the pressure will decrease, especially at lower RPM. The tight pump tolerance also puts the oil in extreme shear, dictating a very specific additive package and viscosity set for the lubricants. Even the oil filter is Voodoo specific for the pressure settings.
Ford knows that this engine needs OIL PRESSURE and HIGH VOLUME more than it needs billet gears.
You imagine that the powdered metal is just weak garbage metal, dictated by accountants. It just aint so. These metals are blended with very specific properties for wear, expansion and durability. I won't convince you because you are not an engineer. You think that billet gears are automatically better because they are billet. That's just nonsense.
So go ahead. Change the pump. Imagine that you are smarter than the test engineers who ran these engines at 8000 RPM under full load for more than 1000 hours. These are guys like you and me with their reputations on the line.
They really do know what they are doing.
And, there is not a single documented Voodoo engine failure attributed to OPG failure.
Lots of noise and conjecture, but no facts or proof.

 

[Hack]

No, you're a fanboy who does not want to hear anything about your precious GT350. Grow up. I have contributed a lot to this forum and just because you don't agree let's not turn this to a "He does not like the GT350". That is pure BS.

Completely wrong. I just refuted both of your main points, as did several others. Now that is the second time you resorted to name calling in this thread.

Just admit it when you're wrong or stop replying rather than trying to up the ante and win in a different way.

I think the thing I expect to happen in the Voodoo as it wears is piston slap. Due to the gearing, high C.R. and the nature of the engine, many people will lug the engine and the skirts will wear over time. However, I've had engines with piston slap and it doesn't bother me that much. Hopefully my Voodoo will hang together for many years.

 

[Mike02z]

Completely wrong. I just refuted both of your main points, as did several others. Now that is the second time you resorted to name calling in this thread.

Just admit it when you're wrong or stop replying rather than trying to up the ante and win in a different way.

I think the thing I expect to happen in the Voodoo as it wears is piston slap. Due to the gearing, high C.R. and the nature of the engine, many people will lug the engine and the skirts will wear over time. However, I've had engines with piston slap and it doesn't bother me that much. Hopefully my Voodoo will hang together for many years.

I removed that before you quoted me as I don't want to make this personal. My opinion is not wrong. It's an opinion and that is all it is. This is not about winning or losing it's about OPINION Why does it have to be right/wrong? Yes, I will admit that it was wrong of me to post here. Carry on.

 

[Zombo]

I removed that before you quoted me as I don't want to make this personal. My opinion is not wrong. It's an opinion and that is all it is. This is not about winning or losing it's about OPINION Why does it have to be right/wrong?

Yes, and you are entitled to believe that the OPG is a weak link. However, passionately suggesting that Ford bean-counters drove the OPG design drifts away from being opinion - I think that is what most people have issue with.

 

[lemers]

How long could a voodoo last, if a voodoo would last long?

 

[Hack]

I removed that before you quoted me as I don't want to make this personal. My opinion is not wrong. It's an opinion and that is all it is. This is not about winning or losing it's about OPINION Why does it have to be right/wrong? Yes, I will admit that it was wrong of me to post here. Carry on.

I don't think it was wrong of you to post here. I also think it's good to post your opinion and this thread is about opinions. I'm mostly objecting to repeated hammering on Ford and the Voodoo and ignoring countering opinions and arguments. Yes I probably am a fan boy. Definitely to some degree I am. I feel with your line "it was wrong of me to post here" you are still trying to change the argument and win in a different way.

I mostly was hoping you would be open minded to thinking about what others are writing here... :shrug:

 

[EFI]

The only thing that would concern me reliability wise of the Voodoo is the pistons, rings and/or bore.

It's a well known fact that forged pistons with their looser clearances simply don't have the same longevity as hyper pistons which are able to be installed tighter and have less expansion. 4032 pistons are definitely better than 2618 material, but still their PTV is a helluva lot looser than hyper pistons.

Not that it won't last throughout the warranty period, but I don't expect 400k miles like the ol' mod motors you see in taxi cabs.

 

[cozmo2312]

Ford has a good idea of how many engines will blow due to the OPG.

source?

 

[Zitrosounds]

source?

THE INTERNET!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[Minn19]

I feel like this reading this thread.

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