Voodoo how long will it last?

[J_Maher_AMG]

Comparing a 4 cylinder flat plane engine to a V8 engine is not apples to apples. All you have to do is google inherent flaws in V8, V10, V12 flat plane and you will see NVH is a major problem and has been for years. For packaging reasons, Ford could not use dual intakes and or equal length headers or a light weight crank. All of this again causes NVH.

It's a large displacement engine with a relatively heavy crankshaft for a FP engine. The Ferrari V8 crank weighs ~35 lbs. The VOODOO crank weighs in ~55 lbs. The whole point of a flat plane engine is a lightweight crank and high RPM's. The GT350 has an 8250 redline but the crank is pretty heavy and this causes additional NVH issues. Don't get me wrong. It's an amazing engine that will likely get better if Ford sticks with it. I have never owned a car that sounds as good as the GT350. I'm just trying to be objective and say there are inherent design compromises that had to be made to manufacture the VOODOO and keep it from making a GT350 150k.

I have no idea what your point is on the cast OPG. Seems like almost everyone, me included, agrees that the cast gear was a BAD idea on an engine that spins to 8250 RPM. Of course you are welcome to your opinion.

I agree with some points both you and Hack pointed out. NVH is absolutely a concern with regards to longevity, primarily the V part though. I look at it a number of ways. It is based off of the Coyote architecture which has proven to be extremely robust in it's design, so it has those inherent strengths, without the cylinder #8 overheating issues. It certainly does have more vibration, but it breaths better and manages heat better, so there are pros and cons to it having the FPC.

For the majority of people, myself included, the engine will not live near it's redline (although I wish it could). Majority of street miles will be spend between 2000-4500 rpms, and I don't see any engine not being able to put up with that form of relatively mild driving for a very long time.

The voodoo crank is something like 47lbs; the Coyote's is 55lbs I believe as you referenced, though I'm not 100% sure on those numbers. Still a valid point though in regards to packaging/overall design and the differences in our motors compared to the likes of Ferrari and McLaren. They are much lighter and have a more optimal header design, firing order and intake layout. I've said it before and I'll say it again, as much as I LOVE this engine, it would have been so dam cool for them to have made a 4.7L FPC V8, same size as the original GT350R, but make the whole internal assembly lighter and rev it out to 9000rpms. I wouldn't even care if it made less power (though likely it would make more), but an even higher redline would be irresistible.

As Forgedwheeler points out, no concrete evidence regarding the OPG as being the root of any failures. Speculation and evidence when looked at logically actually points to the fact that the OPG's were not the primary causes of failure based on the non-existent number of failures on cars that are tracked frequently, thus debunking the assumption that the voodoo's vibrational issues have caused OPG failures.

I will still probably install a forged piece once the warranty expires just for the sake of it (why not improve something if you have the means right?). But I will certainly be leaving it alone during the warranty period. My hope is for this car to last until I'm put in the ground... and considering I'm only 26 now, I hope that is long long ways off

Welcome back to the forum BTW :cheers:

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[machsmith]

I agree with some points both you and Hack pointed out. NVH is absolutely a concern with regards to longevity, primarily the V part though. I look at it a number of ways. It is based off of the Coyote architecture which has proven to be extremely robust in it's design, so it has those inherent strengths, without the cylinder #8 overheating issues. It certainly does have more vibration, but it breaths better and manages heat better, so there are pros and cons to it having the FPC.

For the majority of people, myself included, the engine will not live near it's redline (although I wish it could). Majority of street miles will be spend between 2000-4500 rpms, and I don't see any engine not being able to put up with that form of relatively mild driving for a very long time.

The voodoo crank is something like 47lbs; the Coyote's is 55lbs I believe as you referenced, though I'm not 100% sure on those numbers. Still a valid point though in regards to packaging/overall design and the differences in our motors compared to the likes of Ferrari and McLaren. They are much lighter and have a more optimal header design, firing order and intake layout. I've said it before and I'll say it again, as much as I LOVE this engine, it would have been so dam cool for them to have made a 4.7L FPC V8, same size as the original GT350R, but make the whole internal assembly lighter and rev it out to 9000rpms. I wouldn't even care if it made less power (though likely it would make more), but an even higher redline would be irresistible.

As Forgedwheeler points out, no concrete evidence regarding the OPG as being the root of any failures. Speculation and evidence when looked at logically actually points to the fact that the OPG's were not the primary causes of failure based on the non-existent number of failures on cars that are tracked frequently, thus debunking the assumption that the voodoo's vibrational issues have caused OPG failures.

I will still probably install a forged piece once the warranty expires just for the sake of it (why not improve something if you have the means right?). But I will certainly be leaving it alone during the warranty period. My hope is for this car to last until I'm put in the ground... and considering I'm only 26 now, I hope that is long long ways off

Welcome back to the forum BTW :cheers:

Feel the same. Ill be putting in billet gears once my warranty is up. PITA...but ill do it.

 

[Minn19]

Welcome back!

Im also weary of the longevity of the engine, hence the purchase of the 8yr extended. Beyond that, I think Ill be proactive and change out the OPG once my warranty runs out.

I would hope in 8 years we will have enough data on this engine if that will be necessary or not.

 

[firestarter2]

Anecdotally the OPG seemed to happen on cars reved to or close to redline when cold. We will see, my car spends a lot of time near redline on the track.

 

[Tomster]

I'm more concerned about the transmission ;)

 

[xXANCHORMONXx]

If you're concerned about longevity buy a Hyundai.

 

[GT 350]

If you're concerned about longevity buy a Hyundai.

There you go...best response yet.

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

If you're concerned about longevity buy a Toyota.

Fixed for you

Pretty irrelevant response though... just because we are buying a sports car doesn't mean we shouldn't care about longevity... unless $70K is disposable to you, pretty foolish statement IMO

 

[cking]

I'm more concerned about the transmission ;)

I haven't heard of any reoccurring problems?

 

[Tomster]

I haven't heard of any reoccurring problems?

It was kind of a joke. I'm certainly keeping one of my R's for the rest of my life and I have an opportunity to buy a new transmission at the subsidized tech pack cost. If I were to ever have tranny problems under warranty, a dealership would simply swap my original numbers matching unit with a oem rebuild. I don't think they'd let me keep the original numbers matching for a core fee. I wouldn't normally do this, but the price is right and one of the R's is a forever keeper.

Now about the voodoo? That thing over time concerns me. However over time, enough data will be there to decide where we all go with this. Does anyone know how long they make oem parts for after production ends? Maybe Jay Lenno will be selling his extra voodoo sometime soon. Shipping on that one would be a real problem.

 

[Hack]

I have no idea what your point is on the cast OPG. Seems like almost everyone, me included, agrees that the cast gear was a BAD idea on an engine that spins to 8250 RPM. Of course you are welcome to your opinion.

I don't have any experience in that area of automotive design. I don't know much about the manufacturing process, the loads on the parts, the failure modes, etc. The reason I tend to think it's ok is because I believe that Ford's engineers know what they are doing, Ford has the appropriate durability tests in place and so on.

It seems like you on the other hand, have just read something on the internet and are repeating it over and over. You have no knowledge or evidence that there is a problem, but you are 100% sure that it's a BAD design.

Explain to me why I should trust your opinion over that of Ford's engineers?

 

[Mike02z]

I don't have any experience in that area of automotive design. I don't know much about the manufacturing process, the loads on the parts, the failure modes, etc. The reason I tend to think it's ok is because I believe that Ford's engineers know what they are doing, Ford has the appropriate durability tests in place and so on.

It seems like you on the other hand, have just read something on the internet and are repeating it over and over. You have no knowledge or evidence that there is a problem, but you are 100% sure that it's a BAD design.

Explain to me why I should trust your opinion over that of Ford's engineers?

You can believe whomever you'd like. Yes I have been reading a lot here and on other sites. It's a weak link. You don't need to believe me. Ask any shop that does modifications to the GT350. Ask them the first stock parts to get replaced when doing a build with more power. Ask any user who added more power and ask them if the OPG came up when talking about a build.

I'm entitled to my opinion just like you are. You don't need to agree with it and frankly, I don't care. TO ME, the OPG is a weak link.

You trust Ford engineers huh? So you think it was an engineer who put a cast OPG into a VOODOO huh? Pretty naive. The bean counters that already had a working OPG put it in. It's a cost savings measure, nothing more. :cheers:

 

[Krogen]

Longevity of the GT350 and its engine aren't things I'm going to obsess about. If something breaks, I'll fix it. If it's getting fixed so often I get sick of it, I'll sell it. Meanwhile, I'll be going through life with a heckuva ride! Everything we accumulate in this life stays here when we leave, so why worry?

 

[nastang87xx]

Opinions are irrelevant. Data points are. I'm going to just guess that 100% of people who have posted in this thread, albeit small, have never had an OPG failure.

 

[Zitrosounds]

^^^^^THIS!!!!!!!:cheers:

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