Vibration between 50 & 70 mph

[FordService]

Deysha - can you contact someone from the engineering department about this and get back to us with something of substance.

I understand your primary role is to make sure people get entered into service tickets, but we need someone who makes the TSBs to chime in here.

Customer service is appreciated, TSBs and recalls are useful.

I understand where you’re coming from, ultimate warrior. However, those are only accessible to your dealership since they are the ones who repair our vehicles.

As I’ve mentioned before, I have been in contact with our engineers forwarding them as much info as possible. Please understand, the process of looking into the concerns and ensuring a proper resolution takes time. Thank you for your time and patience.

I had my arbitration today, then received a call from the Regional Manager. I'm at the point of not being sure what to hope for. Even if I don't hear something back by Friday on the arbitration, I guess I'll head down to the Dodge and Chevy dealers to see what they have to offer. The grass can't be any browner over there.

Deysha,
Thank you for making the call from the Regional Manager happen. Hopefully, he has some pull with the engineers to fix this. I find it so hard to believe that Ford dealers can't balance driveshafts because it is not an approved warranty repair. Worse yet, according to all 3 dealers I called, if I have it done at a non-Ford shop I will void the entire warranty. Wow!

I think it's becoming clearer what I hope for...

You’re welcome, Jim05!

Deysha

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[347CobraII]

That's because are impatient and think it'd so easy to throw out TSB. I've seen this with TSB's and recalls do knee jerk reaction put someone out there to make people happy. Then have to put another TSB or recall. Then people get upset about that throw them under the bus.

So it's damn if they do and damn if they don't never will make people happy

 

[Cobra Jet]

That's because are impatient and think it'd so easy to throw out TSB. I've seen this with TSB's and recalls do knee jerk reaction put someone out there to make people happy. Then have to put another TSB or recall. Then people get upset about that throw them under the bus.

So it's damn if they do and damn if they don't never will make people happy

If you have no added value to this thread, please refrain from the ridiculous comments. All you have done is call people with legitimate claims whiners, then turn around and say folks are impatient.

It's one thing to be patient - it's another thing that this issue has been prevelant in the Mustang since the 2015 redesign- it's been documented by Consumer Reports as I noted AND it was mentioned in the documentary "A Faster Horse" as well. It IS an issue that should have had a corrective TSB by now! It's almost end of Q1 2016 and new 2016 owners are reporting the SAME issue.

So if it's a design flaw with the 2-piece driveshaft, a manufacturing issue with any of the parts that make up the 2-piece driveshaft OR a poor assembly process there's been PLENTY of time for Ford's Engineers to come up with some type of corrective action.

A transmission, driveshaft and rear diff have been under vehicles since the early 1900's - they weren't invented yesterday and diagnosis is no different from a single to 2-piece design, regardless of year/make/model.

Ford should ask themselves this, is it productive, cost effective and worth:
1) Having to send their Engineers out to different Ford Service Centers across the country to properly diagnose such concerns
2) Having Service Centers spend exorbitant amount of labor time for such issues
3) Having to replace non-defective parts from mis-diagnosis
4) Having to have their lawyers and arbitration units fend off multiple claims and lemon law buy backs
5) Pissing off devout and new Customers and losing not only those Customers but future Customers
6) Getting all of the nice PR coming from such legit claims on multiple social networking sites that will steer away customers from their products

It's a real issue that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.

Deysha does an excellent job - agreed 500% - and those of us who have dealt with her via IM's and where she has elevated the claims -we do appreciate her efforts.

The points being clearly made:
1) How much longer for the Engineering Team to come up with a solution?
2) Why aren't the customer complaints from various Service Centers getting elevated OR documented in Fords systems to create a "flag" to initiate a TSB BY NOW?
3) Not all Service Centers are at fault - more so if they have nothing to go on because there is nothing for them to reference in the systems for further analysis.

 

[888mustang]

Have to say Cobra Jet I agree with all of your points 100%. I am a auto tech with 35+ years experience and this problem should not be that difficult to diagnose . I knew within the first 30 miles I had a definite drive line vibration. My dealer was great and did the drive shaft right away and then a new tire and wheel , I knew the tire and wheel wasn't the problem but its their dime. Hard to believe how much wasted time and parts Ford spends on this. I corrected it myself by rotating the drive shaft to different clock positions. Got it good or 90% better not sure, I am very picky. And yes 347 Cobra I have dealt with many unreasonable customers over the years but this is a real problem that has been going on way to long. Should have been a T S B by now.

 

[MikeD1]

Well, today was round #3 - replace the drive shaft - and it seemed to make no difference what so ever. Dealer contacted someone in engineering and the CSR and were given a laundry list of things the engineers wanted them to check. I need to bring the car back Monday & they said to plan on leaving it for at least 3 days.

I mentioned the output flange business, but they said they had to follow the list and that someone from the engineering team may even come out & evaluate the car at some point in the process.

And so she sits for another weekend accumulating pollen .............................

 

[347CobraII]

If you have no added value to this thread, please refrain from the ridiculous comments. All you have done is call people with legitimate claims whiners, then turn around and say folks are impatient.

It's one thing to be patient - it's another thing that this issue has been prevelant in the Mustang since the 2015 redesign- it's been documented by Consumer Reports as I noted AND it was mentioned in the documentary "A Faster Horse" as well. It IS an issue that should have had a corrective TSB by now! It's almost end of Q1 2016 and new 2016 owners are reporting the SAME issue.

So if it's a design flaw with the 2-piece driveshaft, a manufacturing issue with any of the parts that make up the 2-piece driveshaft OR a poor assembly process there's been PLENTY of time for Ford's Engineers to come up with some type of corrective action.

A transmission, driveshaft and rear diff have been under vehicles since the early 1900's - they weren't invented yesterday and diagnosis is no different from a single to 2-piece design, regardless of year/make/model.

Ford should ask themselves this, is it productive, cost effective and worth:
1) Having to send their Engineers out to different Ford Service Centers across the country to properly diagnose such concerns
2) Having Service Centers spend exorbitant amount of labor time for such issues
3) Having to replace non-defective parts from mis-diagnosis
4) Having to have their lawyers and arbitration units fend off multiple claims and lemon law buy backs
5) Pissing off devout and new Customers and losing not only those Customers but future Customers
6) Getting all of the nice PR coming from such legit claims on multiple social networking sites that will steer away customers from their products

It's a real issue that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.

Deysha does an excellent job - agreed 500% - and those of us who have dealt with her via IM's and where she has elevated the claims -we do appreciate her efforts.

The points being clearly made:
1) How much longer for the Engineering Team to come up with a solution?
2) Why aren't the customer complaints from various Service Centers getting elevated OR documented in Fords systems to create a "flag" to initiate a TSB BY NOW?
3) Not all Service Centers are at fault - more so if they have nothing to go on because there is nothing for them to reference in the systems for further analysis.

WOW cranky are we go back re-read my posts. Where's a question if you can do better then show us. My 2015 GT does have slight vibration and drone sound, can watch rear view mirror vibrate then not. I have figured out vibrations issue it's not easy as YOU THINK MISTER GIVE ME TSB. Even my 2011 GT had vibration which was pinion preload even thou it was in spec tighten pinion up more vibration. 1 piece driveshaft no fix, pinion flange no fix, adjustable upper control arm no fix. I can see you have no skills in this field from your posts.

YOU scream 2 piece driveshaft is stupid why? One piece driveshaft is longer than old 67-73 Mustangs even they had vibration problems on some. Long driveshaft are more sensitive to angles from trans and pinion than very short driveshaft. I'm going to check pinion preload on my 2015 even they can be loose under load. Also people who have had pinion flange change had vibration fixed. May not be flange balance issue because tech tighten preload more than what it was from the factory. Was hoping since 2015 used bigger pinion and bearing this wouldn't be issue. But from what I work on it can deflect most big truck rears use thrust bolt on ring gear. Pinion gear will push ring gear enough to make it rub on thrust bolt under heavy load. That thrust bolt is set at .20 gap from back side of ring gear and bolt.

We do get a lot of customers that do come in with attitude or get pissed off because we can't get them in NOW. Then call corp office or Peterbilt complain that we was rude when we were not. Now we have camera watching service desk because of people like this. This is almost daily thing mind you.

 

[347CobraII]

Have to say Cobra Jet I agree with all of your points 100%. I am a auto tech with 35+ years experience and this problem should not be that difficult to diagnose . I knew within the first 30 miles I had a definite drive line vibration. My dealer was great and did the drive shaft right away and then a new tire and wheel , I knew the tire and wheel wasn't the problem but its their dime. Hard to believe how much wasted time and parts Ford spends on this. I corrected it myself by rotating the drive shaft to different clock positions. Got it good or 90% better not sure, I am very picky. And yes 347 Cobra I have dealt with many unreasonable customers over the years but this is a real problem that has been going on way to long. Should have been a T S B by now.

Driveline vibration isn't always driveline other things can amplify it. I have ran into before

 

[MikeD1]

Well, today was round #3 - replace the drive shaft - and it seemed to make no difference what so ever. Dealer contacted someone in engineering and the CSR and were given a laundry list of things the engineers wanted them to check. I need to bring the car back Monday & they said to plan on leaving it for at least 3 days.

I mentioned the output flange business, but they said they had to follow the list and that someone from the engineering team may even come out & evaluate the car at some point in the process.

And so she sits for another weekend accumulating pollen .............................

And now Monday's off, Ford is saying it has to go back to the selling dealer to continue with problem determination :frusty:

 

[Jim05]

If you have no added value to this thread, please refrain from the ridiculous comments. All you have done is call people with legitimate claims whiners, then turn around and say folks are impatient.



It's one thing to be patient - it's another thing that this issue has been prevelant in the Mustang since the 2015 redesign- it's been documented by Consumer Reports as I noted AND it was mentioned in the documentary "A Faster Horse" as well. It IS an issue that should have had a corrective TSB by now! It's almost end of Q1 2016 and new 2016 owners are reporting the SAME issue.



So if it's a design flaw with the 2-piece driveshaft, a manufacturing issue with any of the parts that make up the 2-piece driveshaft OR a poor assembly process there's been PLENTY of time for Ford's Engineers to come up with some type of corrective action.



A transmission, driveshaft and rear diff have been under vehicles since the early 1900's - they weren't invented yesterday and diagnosis is no different from a single to 2-piece design, regardless of year/make/model.



Ford should ask themselves this, is it productive, cost effective and worth:

1) Having to send their Engineers out to different Ford Service Centers across the country to properly diagnose such concerns

2) Having Service Centers spend exorbitant amount of labor time for such issues

3) Having to replace non-defective parts from mis-diagnosis

4) Having to have their lawyers and arbitration units fend off multiple claims and lemon law buy backs

5) Pissing off devout and new Customers and losing not only those Customers but future Customers

6) Getting all of the nice PR coming from such legit claims on multiple social networking sites that will steer away customers from their products



It's a real issue that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.



Deysha does an excellent job - agreed 500% - and those of us who have dealt with her via IM's and where she has elevated the claims -we do appreciate her efforts.



The points being clearly made:

1) How much longer for the Engineering Team to come up with a solution?

2) Why aren't the customer complaints from various Service Centers getting elevated OR documented in Fords systems to create a "flag" to initiate a TSB BY NOW?

3) Not all Service Centers are at fault - more so if they have nothing to go on because there is nothing for them to reference in the systems for further analysis.

I did my calculation on the costs so far, and they are at $15,000 based on 3 hours per day of service and $100/hour. You would think that a few engineers working this for a week or two might yield some real cost avoidance, not to mention a whole lot more happy customers who convey a positive experience. I personally have helped 4 people avoid the "Ford experience", and even watched one walk to a next-door dealer and buy a Chevy. Needless to say, there was one very unhappy salesman.


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[jdoug]

I've been having a vibration issue as well but thought it was bad tires. Dealership is replacing my driveshaft on Monday.

 

[888mustang]

Yes 347 Cobra I agree with you about unreasonable customers 100%. But as I said I fixed or improved by 90% my vibration by changing the clock position of the drive shaft.I have had cars with the pinion bearings totally worn out and screaming and they had no vibration at all so not sure if pinion preload makes a big difference.Never had a car vibrate because of half shafts except under load so thats not the problem. Possible pinion flange out of round? Possible ring and pinion slight out of round causing a slip/stick condition causing vibrations? But again Ford engineers should be able to figure this out,not that many things it can be. I have had 6 Mustangs between 1979-2000 with 1 piece drive shafts and none of them had a vibration. I rented a new Charger RWD last month and it was smooth as glass at all speeds.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Here's my update as of 02/26:

My car has been at the Ford Service Center since 02/16 - it's still there as of this post.


So just some cliffs notes as to what has been done:

01/16 - this was my initial visit for the driveline vibration - of which I specifically told the Dealer to check the drivetrain for the vibration as the vibe was consistent with load on driveshaft while driving. Their diagnosis: wheel and tire balance (was told front wheels only). This did not fix issue, concern still present after waiting and leaving dealership.

** Due to NJ weather conditions of the time my appointments after 01/16 had to be rescheduled a couple of times and next avail was 01/27.

01/27 - factory driveshaft was reindexed and run out was checked. Concern still present after waiting and leaving dealership.

02/02 - vehicle dropped off again - 3rd visit. Car stayed at Dealer for 1 week - the original driveshaft was removed from the vehicle and sent out to an independent shop that supposedly rebalanced that driveshaft because it was determined that it was "out of balance" by the Ford Service Center.

02/08 - I picked up the vehicle after its week stay at the Ford Service Center - driveline vibration still present even after being assured that since the driveshaft was rebalanced by an independent shop - there was no vibration at 55-65mph. Vibration still present at that speed range (and beyond).

02/16 - vehicle dropped off at Ford Service Center again (4th visit). Now going to use specialized equipment for vibration analysis.

02/19 - informed that they replaced the front transmission flange, replaced the rear pinion flange and road force balanced all wheels. They test drove the car, told me the vibration was still present and they were not happy with the outcome. They asked if they could keep the car longer, which I obliged.

02/22 - I was informed they ordered a new factory driveshaft on 02/19 for expedited "emergency order". They will let me know once it arrives and outcome of the installation of the new factory driveshaft.

02/23 - New factory driveshaft installed - vibration still present. Service Center contacting Ford Engineering to request further direction.

02/24 - Service Center tells me the Ford Engineer will be visiting Service Center on 02/25.

02/25 - I'm being told by the Ford Service Center that the Ford Engineer did not show due to he can't make it because he has other Dealerships to tend to - but gave further diagnosis and methods of isolating possible driveline parts over the phone.... Yep, you read that right. So the Ford Engineer who knew in advance he had an appointment and said he was going to the Dealership on 02/25 is a no show.

02/26 - Spoke to my Ford Service Writer - he's advising they are awaiting additional direction from another Engineering Team within Ford (at the Flat Rock plant where my car was built). Car will stay at Service Center.

02/26 - I have called and left a message with my Ford Case Worker - whom again I have not heard from after sending a couple of emails to her during this week and I've not received any responses. I'm being REAL nice by not calling her out on this forum - but seriously, I'm the Customer, why is it MY responsibility to update my Ford Case Worker when I was told initially that she should be providing me with updates?

So even after a new front trans flange, a new rear pinion flange, another new driveshaft and hours of diagnosis the vibe is still there.

Anyone else care to diagnose my car? Hell, if the Ford Engineer can diagnose it over the phone, might as well have the same "virtual" diagnosis here...

F'n disgusted.

 

[888mustang]

Sorry to hear about your Mustang Cobra Jet,I know how you feel.I think the only thing left is to replace the rear differential,possible out of round ring or pinion gear with a slip/stick condition causing the vibration. Good luck and keep posting.

 

[GT Pony]

So even after a new front trans flange, a new rear pinion flange, another new driveshaft and hours of diagnosis the vibe is still there.

Anyone else care to diagnose my car? Hell, if the Ford Engineer can diagnose it over the phone, might as well have the same "virtual" diagnosis here.

As mentioned above by 888mustang, it could be something in the differential (ring/pinion gears binding in spots). Or it could be some of the new parts they have already replaced were defective (out of round and/or not balanced).

Did they check to see if the drive shaft shows to rotate true at the transmission flange and again at the differential flange? If not, then either one of them could be off-center.

I haven't read anyone mention that the dealers check for drive shaft trueness while it rotates on the car.

 

[montreal ponies]

Here's my update as of 02/26:

My car has been at the Ford Service Center since 02/16 - it's still there as of this post.


So just some cliffs notes as to what has been done:

01/16 - this was my initial visit for the driveline vibration - of which I specifically told the Dealer to check the drivetrain for the vibration as the vibe was consistent with load on driveshaft while driving. Their diagnosis: wheel and tire balance (was told front wheels only). This did not fix issue, concern still present after waiting and leaving dealership.

** Due to NJ weather conditions of the time my appointments after 01/16 had to be rescheduled a couple of times and next avail was 01/27.

01/27 - factory driveshaft was reindexed and run out was checked. Concern still present after waiting and leaving dealership.

02/02 - vehicle dropped off again - 3rd visit. Car stayed at Dealer for 1 week - the original driveshaft was removed from the vehicle and sent out to an independent shop that supposedly rebalanced that driveshaft because it was determined that it was "out of balance" by the Ford Service Center.

02/08 - I picked up the vehicle after its week stay at the Ford Service Center - driveline vibration still present even after being assured that since the driveshaft was rebalanced by an independent shop - there was no vibration at 55-65mph. Vibration still present at that speed range (and beyond).

02/16 - vehicle dropped off at Ford Service Center again (4th visit). Now going to use specialized equipment for vibration analysis.

02/19 - informed that they replaced the front transmission flange, replaced the rear pinion flange and road force balanced all wheels. They test drove the car, told me the vibration was still present and they were not happy with the outcome. They asked if they could keep the car longer, which I obliged.

02/22 - I was informed they ordered a new factory driveshaft on 02/19 for expedited "emergency order". They will let me know once it arrives and outcome of the installation of the new factory driveshaft.

02/23 - New factory driveshaft installed - vibration still present. Service Center contacting Ford Engineering to request further direction.

02/24 - Service Center tells me the Ford Engineer will be visiting Service Center on 02/25.

02/25 - I'm being told by the Ford Service Center that the Ford Engineer did not show due to he can't make it because he has other Dealerships to tend to - but gave further diagnosis and methods of isolating possible driveline parts over the phone.... Yep, you read that right. So the Ford Engineer who knew in advance he had an appointment and said he was going to the Dealership on 02/25 is a no show.

02/26 - Spoke to my Ford Service Writer - he's advising they are awaiting additional direction from another Engineering Team within Ford (at the Flat Rock plant where my car was built). Car will stay at Service Center.

02/26 - I have called and left a message with my Ford Case Worker - whom again I have not heard from after sending a couple of emails to her during this week and I've not received any responses. I'm being REAL nice by not calling her out on this forum - but seriously, I'm the Customer, why is it MY responsibility to update my Ford Case Worker when I was told initially that she should be providing me with updates?

So even after a new front trans flange, a new rear pinion flange, another new driveshaft and hours of diagnosis the vibe is still there.

Anyone else care to diagnose my car? Hell, if the Ford Engineer can diagnose it over the phone, might as well have the same "virtual" diagnosis here...

F'n disgusted.

Last case scenario . BBB

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