Tuner Can't Tune Car

[tdstuart]

Decided to switch from Lund to a new tuner as I didn't like the customer service I was getting. Lund tunes were good but after the motor rebuild something was wrong and Lund kept saying the logs were fine (although I could see some phaser differences) and each new tune they sent me made the car slower even when they said they were sending the same tune (clearly could see cam timing was different in the logs).

Anyway I found a new tuner and we started working on the car. Only change I made was I threw a pmas fenderwell intake on it since I wanted to do it and was getting a retune anyway. My previous was a JLT 18+ 120mm cai and the maf diameters are pretty close so the Lund tune actually runs just fine.

New tuner just can't get the car even close to dialed. We are on revision 18. Car was showing 80+ lb/min and 105% duty cycle usage and he wanted me to get bigger injectors (its a off the shelf n/a cam car on 91 with 47lb injectors). According to the airflow, duty cycle, and internal car torque calculations, the car thought I was making 900hp... Clearly, it was way way off as no n/a coyote is making that on 91 and especially not mine. I had to call him and convince him that something was wrong.

As it sits car is still showing higher than expected maf numbers and 20%+ fuel correction at wot. Duty cycle also randomly spikes mid pull with no changes to fuel trims or afr while its spiking which is very weird. Car is also randomly throwing imrc codes for stuck open/closed.

Let me know what you guys would do. I think I am just going to have to eat the cost and go with another tuner at this point. I've already spent 2+ weeks going back and forth and I just don't know If I could even trust the tune even if he gets it so the logs look okay to me. I am no tuning expert hence why I am having someone else do it. Anyone have experience with Juggernaut or Rob Shoemaker? Been recommended Juggernaut by trustworthy people who like to go fast but I would also have to buy another tuning device which pushes the cost of switching from $500-600 to $1000 (Juggernaut uses sct and I have rtd+ and ngauge).

For those tuning geeks if you want to see the logs let me know in the pms. Not sure I wan't to say who it is so if you do snooping and figure it out please don't share here. Not sure If I want to ruin the guys rep over one car.

Edit: Lots of peoples minds go to Wengerd when they see this so I want to clarify its not Wengerd.

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[LOL WUT]

Go to @Wengerd Performance they will get you dialed in and quickly.

 

[K4fxd]

Wengerd still gets great reviews and you did find a vacuum leak when he said you had one.

If I were to buy a new device it would not be SCT I'd get an MPVI3 or PCMtec and learn to tune myself.

 

[MrMike]

The fact that OP has RTD already and won't name the tuner makes me wonder if he's using Wengerd.

Maybe I'm under-thinking this (for once), but if two reputable tuners are failing to tune your motor, is something else wrong? Any chance your cam phasers took a dump?

 

[K4fxd]

He used wengerd a year or more ago and had a vacuum leak.

 

[tdstuart]

The fact that OP has RTD already and won't name the tuner makes me wonder if he's using Wengerd.

The person I am talking about is NOT Wengerd

 

[tdstuart]

He used wengerd a year or more ago and had a vacuum leak.

To clarify I may have had a small vacuum leak due to the angle at which the pcv breather hose was getting pulled on the jlt. I replaced it and fuel trims didn't change at all.

I know because Lund tuned the intake just fine, I saw that it was pulling and the rubber seal looked like it started to rip so I replaced it and fuel trims were just fine.

Wengerd JLT tune was correcting over 60%. Thats a major leak. If it was leaking from there and that's what was causing 60%+ fuel trims then you would expect fixing it would cause my Lund tune to have fuel trims show a big change.

Anyway Wengerd doesn't like me very much anyway, and I don't want to talk about it much more on this post as it always ruins the original topic and turns into an argument.

 

[Wengerd Performance]

Send me the mods on your new setup and ill see if i can help you out

 

[tdstuart]

Maybe I'm under-thinking this (for once), but if two reputable tuners are failing to tune your motor, is something else wrong? Any chance your cam phasers took a dump?

Two reputable tuners aren't failing to tune the car.

Lund has a good base file. Car runs pretty good. Motor spun a bearing and I rebuilt with the same setup. Car started running a second slower 60-130. Lund said everything was fine but I can see in the logs the exhaust phasers doing weird things. Lund tried sending me new logs and even logs they claimed were the exact same as the log I was mainly running and the car was another 1-2 seconds slower and I could clearly see in the log files that the vct cam timing was different. So when Lund is telling me its the same tune just re-exported and I can clearly see a difference in cam timing in the logs it makes me lose confidence and makes it seem like they care so little they won't even checkout the logs.

This new tuner can't get the car to run right. Lots of fuel correction, maf data is completely off, weird duty cycle spikes that make no sense to me.

Edit: I do agree that I think something is wrong with the car. Its not a major thing as the car still runs pretty hard. I think its some weird issue with the exhaust phasers which is weird because they are both brand new and the issue is happening to both and they are the upgraded ford performance ones.

 

[LOL WUT]

Yeah, I’d say this isn’t a tuning issue. If from day 1 the car was a full second slower after the rebuild but with the same supporting modifications, I’d have to say something with the rebuild is causing the issues. Very unlikely that multiple tuners are not able to tune a car that is mechanically sound.

 

[tdstuart]

Yeah, I’d say this isn’t a tuning issue. If from day 1 the car was a full second slower after the rebuild but with the same supporting modifications, I’d have to say something with the rebuild is causing the issues. Very unlikely that multiple tuners are not able to tune a car that is mechanically sound.

Its not that the new tuners tune is 1 second slower like the Lund tune, its that it can't run properly.

If I rebuilt the motor and the same Lund tune works just fine its just slower, then there's no reason the new tuner shouldn't be able to get the car to run just fine even if it is slower.

I fully agree with you that the Lund tune going from low 9s 60-130 to low 10s is most likely something with the car. No reason that the new tuner should be running 13s with crazy log data.

Part of the reason I switched was because Lund just kept saying the car was fine when I could tell by the logs that alteast the cam phasers looked weird. So I was hoping to get a new tuner that could validate what I was seeing.

 

[robvas]

Lund has a good base file. Car runs pretty good. Motor spun a bearing and I rebuilt with the same setup. Car started running a second slower 60-130. Lund said everything was fine but I can see in the logs the exhaust phasers doing weird things. Lund tried sending me new logs and even logs they claimed were the exact same as the log I was mainly running and the car was another 1-2 seconds slower and I could clearly see in the log files that the vct cam timing was different. So when Lund is telling me its the same tune just re-exported and I can clearly see a difference in cam timing in the logs it makes me lose confidence and makes it seem like they care so little they won't even checkout the logs.

Who built the motor? Unless something is different the tune shouldn't have to change at all. Timing not set right or something?

 

[5.0_Lojos]

Get rid of the car and start fresh. Seems there is history with the car and 2 extremely reputable TUNERS. 3 strikes and someone or something had to be out. In this case I think the car

 

[K4fxd]

Get rid of the car and start fresh.

I thought Christine was a Plymouth?

 

[tdstuart]

Who built the motor? Unless something is different the tune shouldn't have to change at all. Timing not set right or something?

I built the motor. From everything I’ve researched if timing was off even 1 tooth I should get a code and it should be noticeable.

Not saying I didn’t mess something up causing a loss in power but not really the point of this post.

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