True Flex Fuel Tune

[mejohn50]

Ford trusts it enough to sell many cars and trucks with this system. I think this is why there is such a large window in the fueling corrections.

I agree. I don’t think it’s a major concern. But I don’t really want to trust those odds if I don’t have to with a combo that’s already on the edge with 93 octane.

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[Mikepol2]

Does is use an ethanol sensor? That’s the big draw to this. Ford’s OEM flex logic relies on feedback from the oxygen sensors to learn. It works, and it can be made to work well, but this eliminates some of the variables from the inferred OEM logic.

Hmm. Maybe I’m uneducated but seems like you might be overthinking this. I pulled up the AF ratio gage for the first tank of flex and just drove around mildly till the new ratio settled out. Ever since then I’ve just mashed it whenever I want with no issues and it absolutely pulls harder. The Livernois tuner is reading a pretty consistent E77.

 

[ZXMustang]

The ultimate goal is like the GM LT1/4 setup. Where you can wire in a true ethanol sensor and the PCM will accept that data and use it to adjust AFR. My ZL1 was rock solid with the E content sensor on board and was tuned to e50 for maximum power.

My 22GT has the flex tune and I have VCM scanner setup to look at all the parameters its using to correct the inferred E content and AFR. Its similar to the GM in the fact that it takes time for that octane change to make it to the sensor, but its much longer for the Ford because as said it needs to be burned and picked up by the O2's to see the difference. The car will adjust accordingly. It works, but you really need to be careful with going from one octane to the other. if you are just daily using the same or similar fuel, the FF tunes are safe to use. But if you are going to run the tank down to nothing, then swap to E or back to 93, then you need to be real careful as the trims can mature before the new octane has been seen. Then you will be running around with fuel trims that could be way out in left field.

My advice is to always use the flex tunes for transitioning from E to 93 or 93 to E. Then use a dedicated E or pump tune. You will get the most consistent power that way. Its too bad we cant wire in a real FF sensor to the ford PCM.

 

[Grimreaper]

I'll email them to add another enthusiast to the pile. Count me in (seriously) if a few of you guys get something work even on a group level. Would prefer being able to at least see all the features in a roush os but stock is a strong start

 

[WildHorse]

Ford trusts it enough to sell many cars and trucks with this system.

of which, ZERO are force inducted. Also, FORDS flex fuel logic is infinitely better than any other tuner logic on the planet.

 

[ZXMustang]

of which, ZERO are force inducted. Also, FORDS flex fuel logic is infinitely better than any other tuner logic on the planet.

The ecoboost trucks are not flex fuel?

 

[mejohn50]

The ultimate goal is like the GM LT1/4 setup. Where you can wire in a true ethanol sensor and the PCM will accept that data and use it to adjust AFR.

The GM implementation would be the most ideal, but unless we somehow get a company to add that functionality to the operating system we will never have it. Maybe PCMTEC is working on it and this is a short term solution to get us closer. It doesn’t seem like HP Tuners is too concerned about adding custom features…they really only seem to care about adding more and more supported vehicles or catering to the big name tuners.

 

[offroadkarter]

The ecoboost trucks are not flex fuel?

they are not

 

[offroadkarter]

Since I really do like the idea of adding a E85 flex fuel sensor to the car without going full standalone ECU, has anyone in this thread thought about the proflex commander? I have a friend with a supercharged E39 M5 (the one featured on the store page) who has run it for a couple years with great success.

https://www.advancedfueldynamics.co...stang-gt-5-0-s197-s550?variant=16472259559490

My thought with a setup like this is, I imagine you'd need to get a tune with this setup installed in order to realize the power gains via timing tweaks. I can't imagine my Lund 93 tune + Proflex + E85 is going to run as hard as my actual Lund flexfuel or E85R tune, but then again I'm no tuner.

Official AFD E85 "ProFlex Commander" with New Harness

AFD E85 "ProFlex Commander" for '15-'17 S550 GT

 

[Bigmustangguy]

My ctsv was the same way. Just picked up my first stang and I was wondering why it was 93 OR E. I actually just asked Lund to explain the this or that but this thread makes sense.

I want to run E in the summer and then store in the winter with 91.
MN life...

The ultimate goal is like the GM LT1/4 setup. Where you can wire in a true ethanol sensor and the PCM will accept that data and use it to adjust AFR. My ZL1 was rock solid with the E content sensor on board and was tuned to e50 for maximum power.

My 22GT has the flex tune and I have VCM scanner setup to look at all the parameters its using to correct the inferred E content and AFR. Its similar to the GM in the fact that it takes time for that octane change to make it to the sensor, but its much longer for the Ford because as said it needs to be burned and picked up by the O2's to see the difference. The car will adjust accordingly. It works, but you really need to be careful with going from one octane to the other. if you are just daily using the same or similar fuel, the FF tunes are safe to use. But if you are going to run the tank down to nothing, then swap to E or back to 93, then you need to be real careful as the trims can mature before the new octane has been seen. Then you will be running around with fuel trims that could be way out in left field.

My advice is to always use the flex tunes for transitioning from E to 93 or 93 to E. Then use a dedicated E or pump tune. You will get the most consistent power that way. Its too bad we cant wire in a real FF sensor to the ford PCM.

 

[Decible]

I

Anyone out here using PCMtec to run true flex fuel. I see Lund, OZ tuning, and PBD are all listed on their website as workshops, but none of the vendors have anything mentioning this yet.

This appears to be the ultimate tuning setup. No more flashing, no more testing fuel, just fill up at pump and let her rip.

isnt there another aus. Company with something similar to this? I think it’s called MatrixOS?

 

[WildHorse]

Get a Trinity EX Platinum, it has a built-in EAX adaptor which you can configure to almost anything, including ethanol sensors.

 

[junits15]

There's a key thing about the inferred system that people seem to miss, and that is that the issue is not the mixture being wrong. Its a lambda car, as long as you have enough fuel system (which all Gen3's do at least NA) you'll never have the wrong mixture. Flex fuel enabled or not.

Timing needs to be increased pretty substantially to make real power on e85. That puts us in a risky situation if the learned ethanol content is wrong. It is wrong, a lot. I've personally seen it off by 30%.

This means we need to be really conservative on flex tunes to leave room in case the learned value is wrong. Look at a stock flex F150 tune, it doesn't add much timing at all, 0 degrees at redline to be exact. That gives an idea of what the inferred ethanol system is designed to do.

This is why this system (or anything similar) would be so good, it removes the issue of incorrectly measured ethanol content. Then you can get a tune that performs like an "e85r" tune with full ethanol, but is also perfectly safe on gasoline. Never learns the wrong value, ever applies the wrong timing.

$3300 is just too much money for one person though, I think we will see this proliferate and cheaper options will come around. FI people will like this.

 

[junits15]

Since I really do like the idea of adding a E85 flex fuel sensor to the car without going full standalone ECU, has anyone in this thread thought about the proflex commander? I have a friend with a supercharged E39 M5 (the one featured on the store page) who has run it for a couple years with great success.

https://www.advancedfueldynamics.co...stang-gt-5-0-s197-s550?variant=16472259559490

My thought with a setup like this is, I imagine you'd need to get a tune with this setup installed in order to realize the power gains via timing tweaks. I can't imagine my Lund 93 tune + Proflex + E85 is going to run as hard as my actual Lund flexfuel or E85R tune, but then again I'm no tuner.

Official AFD E85 "ProFlex Commander" with New Harness

AFD E85 "ProFlex Commander" for '15-'17 S550 GT

I would say to stay away from the proflex, because that thing is expensive and wont be as good as the inferred flex fuel tunes already available. Its more suited to people looking to run flex on a non-flex car for money savings.

That is the equivalent to just taking a gasoline tune and enabling flex fuel with no timing adders. All it does is increase injection based on alcohol percentage. The car can already do that fine, it doesn't fix the main issue which is reliable timing control.

If you put that on, tune it for e85, and then fill with gasoline, you will have uncontrolled knock and potential engine damage.

That same company has another product called FlexLink, no Ford support, but that is what we would need.
https://www.advancedfueldynamics.com/collections/flexlink-1

 

[K4fxd]

I've personally seen it off by 30%.

I only tune my car but I have never seen it off more than 5% after learning.
Long terms have turned on.

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