Throttle House puts the 2020 GT500, Camaro ZL1 and Challenger Hellcat Redeye on the track

[ZRacerLE]

I am incredulous that all Shelby cars don't come with factory installed camber plates. There is just no excuse for not doing so. They might not be the best plates possible (ie. only go up to 2.7 deg). GM clearly is serous about their 'track' capabilities that they even made it trivial to go back and forth between street and track settings by removing one bolt, and just turning the thing 180 degrees. Again, the track setting may not be perfect or go far enough for a purist, but it's probably good enough for 90% of the use cases. Yet another senseless opportunity missed.

Very cool feature and I bet the other two brands eventually introduce it. I will add you still have to go get an alignment after that 180 degree turn. Looking forward to the day it's just a push of a button and I can drive to the track on street alignment and back!

I'm still breaking in the ZLE for tracking (only at 900 miles right now), but I hear the 2.7 degrees makes a world of difference. Really looking forward to experiencing the car in both settings and comparing my own lap times. I'll probably screw my tires running hard on street alignment though given the heavy weight.

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[V00D00]

Hmm. what times we live in.. Of course Dodge, and now GM huggers waver ever so closely to that modified is still stock mantra.

Dodge can throw a crate of after market parts, GM can throw tires on, change everything in the setup, hell, have GM race staff on standby to "corrrect" issues with braking or ovrheating.... and its all still stock and accepted.. Ford throws a car at them and IF it has a rollcage added for safety, and increases weight, we are screamed at for being modified lol ..

 

[shogun32]

adjusting alignment to match task is not modified. changing camber using factory supplied hardware is not modified. adjusting air pressure is not modified. changing brake fluid is not modified. twiddling drive modes or factory provided settings is not modified. changing tires to put all cars on the same rubber (and/or to match usage profile) is not modified.

"factory settings" means bupkis especially as it relates to camber and alignment as far as Ford's go. They apparently sub-contract the task out to cross-eyed monkeys hopped up on hallucinogens.

Any so-called review done by professionals that does not FIRST take the car and get it's alignment measured and fixed as needed is worthless a review as cleaning up a chemical spill with toilet paper.

 

[V00D00]

adjusting alignment to match task is not modified. changing camber using factory supplied hardware is not modified. adjusting air pressure is not modified. changing brake fluid is not modified. twiddling drive modes or factory provided settings is not modified. changing tires to put all cars on the same rubber (and/or to match usage profile) is not modified.

"factory settings" means bupkis especially as it relates to camber and alignment as far as Ford's go. They apparently sub-contract the task out to cross-eyed monkeys hopped up on hallucinogens.

Any so-called review done by professionals that does not FIRST take the car and get it's alignment measured and fixed as needed is worthless a review as cleaning up a chemical spill with toilet paper.

I can agree with that, if the same attention is paid to all vehicles

 

[martinjlm]

I can agree with that, if the same attention is paid to all vehicles

Yes. And here's the thing.... There are threads here at M6 that talk about how the GT500 is going to absolutely demolish Demon, Redeye, and ZLE. Even C8 (Stingray, at least). Demolish. Yet, when any of those cars makes a tweak or two as outlined in their owners manuals suddenly there is no demolition. It becomes a driver's race. In the real world, when any two of these vehicles lines up at a strip or a track, one doesn't know how many of the owners manual allowed adjustments will be made. And at the end, when slips and times are handed out, none of them will say "but the one guy setup to the owners manual track camber settings and adjusted his wing and the other guy didn't". If the factory provides the tools, it's the owner's prerogative to use them or not.

But the onus should be on the reviewers to actualize these things as much as possible. Since most of these tests were done same place, same driver, different days (except Throttle House), it's understandable why the practices vary. Still suboptimal, but understandable.

 

[Classic Lover]

The base GT500 is not adjustable if I'm not mistaken....so they should have compared the C8Z51 to a CFTP.....right?

As I recall they did set times with both a base and CFTP gt500 at that test. Both were faster than the z51, like I said before I was not arguing in any way that the z51 is the faster car. I was pointing out that track alignment is stock on a car like the c8, and some fanboys were claiming it was not stock. This was in context of Chevy boys claiming nonsense about the zl1.

 

[Classic Lover]

Hmm. what times we live in.. Of course Dodge, and now GM huggers waver ever so closely to that modified is still stock mantra.

Dodge can throw a crate of after market parts, GM can throw tires on, change everything in the setup, hell, have GM race staff on standby to "corrrect" issues with braking or ovrheating.... and its all still stock and accepted.. Ford throws a car at them and IF it has a rollcage added for safety, and increases weight, we are screamed at for being modified lol ..

I love how on the mustang forum it’s all about dodge and GM huggers as if the mustang ones don’t exist.

Look the gt500 has been raced with track alignment too, I never saw anyone on here calling it out. Which is good because there is nothing to call out. It’s stock. A rollcage is a safety thing and is used in preproduction cars. I have no problem with someone using that.

Fact is I saw a comment of yours that said you could pull seats out of a gt500 and that was stock for a drag race. Double stranded much?

O look I found it.

“my point is, if he did no modifications to increase rwhp, then its stock. but i beleive there is a hp gain from resonator delete. strip all the weight you want, its still stock. change tires, not stock, change wheels, not stock”

“but someone is just mad and wants to talk.. :(“

 

[FastCarFanBoy]

I must be some old school fanboy, because changing tires on a car and calling it stock is laughable to me.

 

[Arkarius]

Hmm. what times we live in.. Of course Dodge, and now GM huggers waver ever so closely to that modified is still stock mantra.

Dodge can throw a crate of after market parts, GM can throw tires on, change everything in the setup, hell, have GM race staff on standby to "corrrect" issues with braking or ovrheating.... and its all still stock and accepted.. Ford throws a car at them and IF it has a rollcage added for safety, and increases weight, we are screamed at for being modified lol ..

What's your excuse on this one? https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a30870010/2020-muscle-car-showdown/

Just want to make sure it gets properly added to the list.

I love how on the mustang forum it’s all about dodge and GM huggers as if the mustang ones don’t exist.

What's funny is when some people get depicted as trolls on both sides because they aren't interested in pushing the fanboy BS and just want to talk facts about the cars without an agenda.

 

[V00D00]

Yes. And here's the thing.... There are threads here at M6 that talk about how the GT500 is going to absolutely demolish Demon, Redeye, and ZLE. Even C8 (Stingray, at least). Demolish. Yet, when any of those cars makes a tweak or two as outlined in their owners manuals suddenly there is no demolition. It becomes a driver's race. In the real world, when any two of these vehicles lines up at a strip or a track, one doesn't know how many of the owners manual allowed adjustments will be made. And at the end, when slips and times are handed out, none of them will say "but the one guy setup to the owners manual track camber settings and adjusted his wing and the other guy didn't". If the factory provides the tools, it's the owner's prerogative to use them or not.

But the onus should be on the reviewers to actualize these things as much as possible. Since most of these tests were done same place, same driver, different days (except Throttle House), it's understandable why the practices vary. Still suboptimal, but understandable.

I feel a big part of the issue, is that the mgazines know they are delaying and stirring the pot. case in point, MT, C8 and GT500, same track, different days - heres the thing. im fine with the c8 being so close to a base Gt500.. after the suspension setup. I get it, C8 is here, driver is there, its in the manual, see what it can do all out.

However, was the same level of attention paid to the GT500's on their day? if it was, awesome, good comparison and say so, i have not seen it said. If not, dont use the modified suspension setting times of the C8 when comparing them in the following week/months article, because one is an as delivered,360* usage setup. one is a track focused maximum potential setup.

I love how on the mustang forum it’s all about dodge and GM huggers as if the mustang ones don’t exist.

Look the gt500 has been raced with track alignment too, I never saw anyone on here calling it out. Which is good because there is nothing to call out. It’s stock. A rollcage is a safety thing and is used in preproduction cars. I have no problem with someone using that.

Fact is I saw a comment of yours that said you could pull seats out of a gt500 and that was stock for a drag race. Double stranded much?

O look I found it.

“my point is, if he did no modifications to increase rwhp, then its stock. but i beleive there is a hp gain from resonator delete. strip all the weight you want, its still stock. change tires, not stock, change wheels, not stock”

“but someone is just mad and wants to talk.. :(“

1-Show the Mustangs on race alignments. I have not seen that in any article or review. link please
2-par for you, context. drag racing 2 different cars. you want to see which is faster from the factory, race them stock, as delivered. want to set a stock record 1/4 mile record, strip weight. pretty easy to understand if you race. confusing if you're a forum troll, so i see your dilemna

What's your excuse on this one? https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a30870010/2020-muscle-car-showdown/

Just want to make sure it gets properly added to the list.

What's funny is when some people get depicted as trolls on both sides because they aren't interested in pushing the fanboy BS and just want to talk facts about the cars without an agenda.

did i mis any #s, or just the fact the mustang is faster and they had to try to find negatives? complaining about the dial.. why? you set it and forget it. thats a political talking point with no realworld relevence. complaingin about mpg when doing track laps? really.. really...? Is that what passes for a race day review of a car now, he mpg on track?

i mean they basically, well not basically, but blatantly told you this car is wild, its too fast for them..

At full revs, chugging high-test, the GT500 is an event, an automotive happening....fury takes energy. And the 760-hp supercharged 5.2-liter V-8 is nothing if not furious. Unlike the two other cars here, it's a revver. You dip into the throttle and think, "Well now, that's quite a lot of thrust." But then you keep your foot in it and pass through the following escalating stages: "Oh, wow," "Holy shit," and finally, "I'm gonna hurt myself here."

...The GT500 is alive on the track. After only one session, it was identified as the car most likely to end up in the dirt. That's not because of any failing on the part of the GT500. Rather, it's because the Mustang goads the driver the most.

man, look at those awful awfule reviews.. they all but said its too fast.. which we alredy knew

 

[martinjlm]

I feel a big part of the issue, is that the mgazines know they are delaying and stirring the pot. case in point, MT, C8 and GT500, same track, different days - heres the thing. im fine with the c8 being so close to a base Gt500.. after the suspension setup. I get it, C8 is here, driver is there, its in the manual, see what it can do all out.

However, was the same level of attention paid to the GT500's on their day? if it was, awesome, good comparison and say so, i have not seen it said. If not, dont use the modified suspension setting times of the C8 when comparing them in the following week/months article, because one is an as delivered,360* usage setup. one is a track focused maximum potential setup.

Gotta agree with all of that. Especially if they got the GT500s after the C8s. If they were intent on eventually comparing the two pairs, replicate the conditions as best as possible.

did i mis any #s, or just the fact the mustang is faster and they had to try to find negatives? complaining about the dial.. why? you set it and forget it. thats a political talking point with no realworld relevence. complaingin about mpg when doing track laps? really.. really...? Is that what passes for a race day review of a car now, he mpg on track?

i mean they basically, well not basically, but blatantly told you this car is wild, its too fast for them..

I may have missed where they said “too fast”. What they did say was that the Camaro was easier to drive fast. This mainly due to the steering and suspension advantages. There’s no doubt they were impressed by how fast CFTP is. Who wouldn’t be? They’re freakishly fast. I just think that it’s easier to get the most out of ZLE’s max potential than it is to get the most out of CFTP’s max potential, which is pretty much what they said. Most people (self included) will never get anywhere near the potential of either one of these cars, so buy what you like best and sport it proudly.

man, look at those awful awfule reviews.. they all but said its too fast.. which we alredy knew

I realize you’re being a bit sarcastic, but in reality, there’s nothing bad about these reviews. Both are awesome cars. They expressed a preference. Just like the Throttle House guys, Jason, and Randy expressed preferences. It’s like choosing between lobster and prime rib. There’s great and there’s great. Pick one.

 

[Arkarius]

I realize you’re being a bit sarcastic, but in reality, there’s nothing bad about these reviews. Both are awesome cars. They expressed a preference. Just like the Throttle House guys, Jason, and Randy expressed preferences. It’s like choosing between lobster and prime rib. There’s great and there’s great. Pick one.

I don't think he's being sarcastic. He truly believes that the Camaros are crap and the Stangs are the best at everything. Same attitude as Blaq.

The GT500 is *fast*. I don't think anyone is doubting that fact. Discussing the effectiveness of putting all of those screaming eagles to use is mostly what is being compared, and well, the results we are seeing have a common thread.

Now, I don't think the GT500 is crap, or bad at all, just because it doesn't put its power down or handle as well as a ZL1.

 

[Classic Lover]

Your quote.

“1-Show the Mustangs on race alignments. I have not seen that in any article or review. link please
2-par for you, context. drag racing 2 different cars. you want to see which is faster from the factory, race them stock, as delivered. want to set a stock record 1/4 mile record, strip weight. pretty easy to understand if you race. confusing if you're a forum troll, so i see your dilemma”

You said if nothing is done to raise rwhp then the car is stock. I agree that it is stock power. I even would say an aftermarket intake or exhaust is stock power, so long as the engine or tune is not changed it’s stock power. However it’s not a stock car. You said so long as no HP is added but then said wheels and tires swapped are not stock, why not? They don’t add HP. Taking weight out of a car is increasing your hp to weight ratio, which is the same thing as adding hp to the car.

Point is you can’t call out a car for not being stock when it’s in factory track alignment and call weight taken out stock, stock power or tune yes, not stock. Stock means factory, oem, numbers matching parts. I like to break it down like this.

100% stock. OEM stock revealed car, all parts numbers matching to the car.

Stock on a tire. All stock except for a rear tire and or wheel.

Stock with a drag pack. All stock no weight taken out, just a wheel and tire swap all around.

Stock power. This could be any of the above but with some other mods done, weight removed, intake, exhaust, sway bar pulled, gutted, light weight parts like a hood or trunk lid, etc. Still has the stock tune, nothing has been changed on the tune or engine.

 

[mJolnir]

I don't think he's being sarcastic. He truly believes that the Camaros are crap and the Stangs are the best at everything. Same attitude as Blaq.

The GT500 is *fast*. I don't think anyone is doubting that fact. Discussing the effectiveness of putting all of those screaming eagles to use is mostly what is being compared, and well, the results we are seeing have a common thread.

Now, I don't think the GT500 is crap, or bad at all, just because it doesn't put its power down or handle as well as a ZL1.

I truly believe that the zl1 1le will be faster than any version of the gt500 in 80% of the tracks, for the same reason i believe the gt500 will be a easier car to live with for 90% of the users, that reason is the no compromise track suspension, not all tracks are as horsepower dependent as VIR or Laguna Seca. But most users wont ever go to the track, and will probably take their cars to the strip once or twice in a year so it ends up being about which is comfortable, which you like the looks better and which one you can pay.

 

[Rocket403]

Blaq and Voodoo are equal to their fanboy tilt.

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