The Classic 10 Speed Reliability Question

[ChitownStang]

I forgot to mention I did 2 nights at the track with 4- 20 minute segments at each and a little Autocross.
It performed flawlessly and I was very impressed how it handled the down shifting into the corners!

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[Son of SVO]

Hey just had a question about people’s experiences with higher mileage 10 speed mustangs (25k plus, not to be mean but I frankly don’t care that your 10k car has been perfect). Has it been problem free for you or has it given you issues? I am most likely getting rid of my current Mustang GT PP1 10 speed because it’s had other non trans issues and want to get into a Mach 1. My preference is another 10 speed but I seem to read more and more horror stories about it. How’s your experiences been?

Just hit 57k with my 2020 HPP 10 speed. No issues so far.

 

[Headless Horseman]

I'm at 54,000 and I drive it like it's stolen.
It shifts like a maniac under pressure! I think a lot of people try to cruise in these cars like a sedan or a Cadillac coupe and complain about the shifting. My car is in the shop putting a Circle D converter in it right now. I have no reason other than boredom and curiosity. The 10 speed is an entire threat all alone! I love it!

 

[Oldschool]

Hey just had a question about people’s experiences with higher mileage 10 speed mustangs (25k plus, not to be mean but I frankly don’t care that your 10k car has been perfect). Has it been problem free for you or has it given you issues? I am most likely getting rid of my current Mustang GT PP1 10 speed because it’s had other non trans issues and want to get into a Mach 1. My preference is another 10 speed but I seem to read more and more horror stories about it. How’s your experiences been?

I have 39,000 mi on my 10 speed and never had a problem. I think that because all you hear on the forums are the people that have problems with the trans that it appears that these transmissions are unreliable . Not to downplay the issues some people have had, but think of how many 10 speeds are out there and how many you read about on line. I would guess for every bad 10speed out there there are 100+ that are fine.

 

[Joe H]

I have about 14k miles on my '22 GT and I have a couple of issues with it, one that is pretty common based on what I have read elsewhere, and the other one I plan to talk to the dealer about this winter (I welcome anyone's insight about it). The issues I have ONLY occur on track. Off the track in "normal" or "sport" mode I have had no issues, although my 14-y-o daughter (she's a bit of a car girl, to be fair) feels it shifts too hard in sport mode sometimes.
1. The transmission gets too hot too easily and a couple of times has put me into limp mode on the track. Now I know to keep a close eye on the temp so I don't go into limp mode, but the bummer of course is missing track time (or performance), as I did just yesterday afternoon when I had to cut a planned 40-minute session almost in half. I plan to add additional cooling this winter in the off season.
2. Once in a while I get a very hard shift into 5th gear. I have not yet fully put my finger on what's going on.

Oh, to add: When it's working right I LOVE it. No human being can possibly shift as fast and perfectly on the track as that transmission when it's not overheating on me. :-)

 

[GTP]

What temp does your A10 run on track?

Mine would run 230. I just added a second OEM cooler In series with the original. It lowered my temp to 210.

Are you sure your CHT is not what limits you? Because it keeps the trans in higher gears until the temp lowers back down.

 

[Joe H]

Thanks for the reply and question! Yeah, 100% sure it is the transmission temp and not the cylinder head. It will get up around 250. First time it happened I came off track in limp mode trailing white smoke. Now I keep a pretty close eye on it, so it's never been quite that dramatic since. I can mitigate it by short shifting, but it's kind of a drag to give up the acceleration.

As I say, I hope to put in more cooling as you have done. If I could knock it down 20 deg, that would be fantastic.

What cooler did you put in line? - oh, I just noticed your response says you just added a second OEM one. Got it. Other thoughts?

 

[luca1290]

I think a lot of people try to cruise in these cars like a sedan or a Cadillac coupe and complain about the shifting.

It can drive like a proper GT (as in Grand Touring) car, it is a budget sports car, but for what it is it can be properly comfortable, more than you expect (and I also have a Mercedes so I don't have low expectations in terms of comfort).

BUT you have to know how to drive it, this gearbox learns the way you are driving it so you have to give it a little time to adapt and have a little of finesse on the right foot.

To me, the 10R is a blast! Extremely versatile transmission, both when cruising along and hammering it.

 

[GTP]

Thanks for the reply and question! Yeah, 100% sure it is the transmission temp and not the cylinder head. It will get up around 250. First time it happened I came off track in limp mode trailing white smoke. Now I keep a pretty close eye on it, so it's never been quite that dramatic since. I can mitigate it by short shifting, but it's kind of a drag to give up the acceleration.

As I say, I hope to put in more cooling as you have done. If I could knock it down 20 deg, that would be fantastic.

What cooler did you put in line? - oh, I just noticed your response says you just added a second OEM one. Got it. Other thoughts?

I just want to clarify with you.

Is your A10 trans getting up to 250? That's pretty hot, and about the temp that is at the colored warning on the gauge in my photo in post #21 above.

But 250F is also the CHT that will change the A10 behavior in order to keep CHT in check. At this temp, you cannot use lower gears because the higher rpm drives the CHT back up. As you have noticed, downshifting causes the gear indicator to flash to tell you it won't let you downshift. High CHT is the situation that most of us encounter first (whether A10 or M6 trans) and so we put in the extra engine oil cooler first.

You can double the A10 cooling by adding a second OEM cooler for under $150. I have not posted a write-up of how I did this yet. My trans temp dropped by 15-20F after this mod.

Finally, have you checked your A10 fluid level? Under filling causes all the problems that are well documented on 6g, while over filling can cause smoke from the engine bay when the fluid foams, starts to come out the trans vent, and then gets all over the hot engine.

 

[Joe H]

Yes, sir. 100% it is the transmission, the 10-speed automatic, that is getting hot. Yes, it gets up to where the gauge turns orange (I have my gauge cluster exactly like yours on track: diff, CH, tranny). As I say, it even got up into the red the first time when I wasn't watching it as closely as I should have. That was when it went into limp mode by (it seemed to me) limiting revs. I don't know what it would have done had I tried to force it down to a lower gear with the paddles.

Coolant and CHT never gets out of control for me, or at least it has not yet.

I will check the level. This is probably something obvious I should have done, but the car is so new that I assumed it should be okay.

Oh, yeah, it will boil out and trail white smoke as you say. :-) That happens at about the same time the gauge goes into the red (over 250-ish).

Perhaps I encounter the transmission temp limit before the engine temp limitation because of one of the main tracks I run on has a lot of elevation change? A lot of hard acceleration under the additional load of gravity? At least that is my theory.

 

[GTP]

Yes, sir. 100% it is the transmission, the 10-speed automatic, that is getting hot. Yes, it gets up to where the gauge turns orange (I have my gauge cluster exactly like yours on track: diff, CH, tranny). As I say, it even got up into the red the first time when I wasn't watching it as closely as I should have. That was when it went into limp mode by (it seemed to me) limiting revs. I don't know what it would have done had I tried to force it down to a lower gear with the paddles.

Coolant and CHT never gets out of control for me, or at least it has not yet.

I will check the level. This is probably something obvious I should have done, but the car is so new that I assumed it should be okay.

Oh, yeah, it will boil out and trail white smoke as you say. :-) That happens at about the same time the gauge goes into the red (over 250-ish).

Perhaps I encounter the transmission temp limit before the engine temp limitation because of one of the main tracks I run on has a lot of elevation change? A lot of hard acceleration under the additional load of gravity? At least that is my theory.

Understood, thanks. (Actually our back and forth should be moved to one of the cooling threads.)

A friend blew smoke out his vent on track. I am not clear if his trans was overfilled.
So it seems likely that your fluid is NOT underfilled. Especially if it is well behaved on the street.

As for your usual track, what temp does your differential reach?

 

[Joe H]

I'd be happy to move the thread, but I don't know how! Feel free to do that and tell me where to go. And also thanks for the help.

Good question about the differential. I had it get too hot once (into the red) on a 95-degree day on a flatter (probably more time on average spent at, say, > 100mph) track. I am also thinking about adding a diff cooler, and I certainly would welcome recommendations. On my "main" track I have seen the diff temp get kind of high on hotter days, but the limiting factor there has always been the transmission.

Yeah, and to be clear, I really never have issues with any of these systems (A10 nor diff) during normal street driving. Everything is well-behaved and temps stay well below the warning levels.

 

[Qcman17]

I'd be happy to move the thread, but I don't know how! Feel free to do that and tell me where to go. And also thanks for the help.

Good question about the differential. I had it get too hot once (into the red) on a 95-degree day on a flatter (probably more time on average spent at, say, > 100mph) track. I am also thinking about adding a diff cooler, and I certainly would welcome recommendations. On my "main" track I have seen the diff temp get kind of high on hotter days, but the limiting factor there has always been the transmission.

Yeah, and to be clear, I really never have issues with any of these systems (A10 nor diff) during normal street driving. Everything is well-behaved and temps stay well below the warning levels.

I'm pretty sure I've read on here that people have improved the diff temps by wrapping the exhaust near to it might be worth a search for that here?

 

[GTP]

I'm pretty sure I've read on here that people have improved the diff temps by wrapping the exhaust near to it might be worth a search for that here?

Yes, that is the first thing to do, because it slows down the heat soak. Typically this (plus swapping to 140wt gear oil) is sufficient for 20 minute sessions, but I also used a Lowe's battery powered shop fan pointing at my diff in between sessions. Photos of this here. I positioned dual parking blocks to back up to and stop me at the precise spot that puts the fan a couple inches from the diff.

But this year I put in a DIY diff cooler and there are no overheating issues, tested up to 45 minute run. My Diff Cooler Build
You could implement this plan with an OEM trans cooler (it runs about $71), and use more clamp fittings instead of AN fittings to save money.

 

[Spang550]

Yes, that is the first thing to do, because it slows down the heat soak. Typically this (plus swapping to 140wt gear oil) is sufficient for 20 minute sessions, but I also used a Lowe's battery powered shop fan pointing at my diff in between sessions. Photos of this here. I positioned dual parking blocks to back up to and stop me at the precise spot that puts the fan a couple inches from the diff.

But this year I put in a DIY diff cooler and there are no overheating issues, tested up to 45 minute run. My Diff Cooler Build
You could implement this plan with an OEM trans cooler (it runs about $71), and use more clamp fittings instead of AN fittings to save money.

this is 100% not about my question but also 100% interesting info. Thanks! I am leaning toward selling my car since it’s been a turd in other areas and getting a Mach 1 so I should have all the cooling I need out the gate.

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