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Starter woes 2.0

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honeybadger

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FWIW, I talked to Powermaster and they said the most likely culprit is the wire. They emphasized insulating the starter wire is more important than shielding the starter itself.

They also said they would recommend a shield that doesn't touch the starter over a blanket that wraps it
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FWIW, I talked to Powermaster and they said the most likely culprit is the wire. They emphasized insulating the starter wire is more important than shielding the starter itself.

They also said they would recommend a shield that doesn't touch the starter over a blanket that wraps it
Which wire? The big fat one or the small one or the one inside the starter itself? Copper melts at a hair less than 2,000 degrees. I'm baffled by how heat on the external wire can affect the inside wiring.
 

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Which wire? The big fat one or the small one or the one inside the starter itself? Copper melts at a hair less than 2,000 degrees. I'm baffled by how heat on the external wire can affect the inside wiring.
Layman’s take and maybe not directly to your question - heating copper wire will make it softer and easier to break especially with violent movement such as a stalling a 5.2.
 
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Which wire? The big fat one or the small one or the one inside the starter itself? Copper melts at a hair less than 2,000 degrees. I'm baffled by how heat on the external wire can affect the inside wiring.
Tank is spot on per what I'm being told. The heat and vibrations fatigue can cause a voltage drop which causes starter issues.
 

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Layman’s take and maybe not directly to your question - heating copper wire will make it softer and easier to break especially with violent movement such as a stalling a 5.2.
What I'm not getting from this is how any strain is put on the very flexible fine-strand copper wire inside the starter. It won't break without a lot of strain. Is the plastic block moving because the heavy outer cable is pulling it out of position?
 

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What I'm not getting from this is how any strain is put on the very flexible fine-strand copper wire inside the starter. It won't break without a lot of strain. Is the plastic block moving because the heavy outer cable is pulling it out of position?
Could be the voltage drop, rather than breaking, like @honeybadger said above. 🤷
 

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I don't know if this test is possible, but is there a way to demo the starter action on a bench test to actually see/watch how that wiring is impacted on a "start up" or multiple start ups? If so, then one can make a determination IF the wiring is being fatigued by the movement OR if there is another reason or associated component that is causing the premature failure (aside from heat exposure).

To me, having that many starter failures in a short time frame isn't making sense - even with heat exposure. Those units as designed should be able to withstand extreme uses, thousands of start ups, and temp changes. My initial thoughts was sure it *could be* heat related, but seeing that you now have gone through several, what are the chances even if wrapped that they all failed from heat?

I mean there's plenty of other Shelby owners on this site that aren't experiencing this type of failure. What I mean by that statement is, their vehicles also generate the same amount of heat being that the starter used is the same component, located in the same position and near engine/exhaust heat as equally as the next Shelby - whether on or off a track.

Even if the starter is "wrapped" with heat shielding, the unit is still attached to metal and still in a susceptible spot for heat transfer and is heat soaked internally. It's not like the wrap will deflect all heat, it's still going to get pretty damn hot even if wrapped.

I'm thinking it has to be more of manufacturing or tolerance defect of the parts being used in these units. Maybe the vendor who manufacturers the starters changed suppliers and inferior parts are being used in the assembly of the starter. If it's not that or not heat related, then there is another underlying issue being overlooked.
 
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Okay - got the PowerMaster starter and having fitment issues. Was there a block change in this area with earlier coyotes?

@bauern do you happen to know?

BC1835C4-8A06-4466-AACC-979796D2328A.jpeg
B28CCBB2-7C24-4350-BC4E-36D143D9B456.jpeg
 
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Never mind. You can disregard. I found out how to adjust the base and pivot it a bit
 

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I was just about to respond about clocking it haha, keep us posted how this solution holds up!
 

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Former mechanic/technician here, does the brush holder plate move or rotate inside the starter housing? If it does that would explain the repeated failure, otherwise it looks like simple wire failure.

American auto manufacturers have been building starters for roughly 100 years now, so I would think they can build a reliable starter by now. This whole thing reeks of cost cutting, i.e. bean counters using cheaper suppliers.

A few years ago I was into RC cars and the better ones have made the switch to brushless motors and so has the power tool industry. Brushless motors tend to make more power than the old school brush style and they are almost maintenance free. They have one moving part, the rotor itself. The only part that wears out is the bushings/bearing that support the rotor. Anyway, my point is maybe its about time someone developed a brushless starter motor.
 

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@honeybadger

Just curious as to how your last starter (Power Master) is holding up?

Were you ever able to figure out why the stock starters were failing?
 
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@honeybadger

Just curious as to how your last starter (Power Master) is holding up?

Were you ever able to figure out why the stock starters were failing?
So far so good. It spins the engine over faster and sounds like it takes less effort. No signs of any type of issue. Only time will tell if it handles the heat and vibrations, though.
 

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So far so good. It spins the engine over faster and sounds like it takes less effort. No signs of any type of issue. Only time will tell if it handles the heat and vibrations, though.
Which PowerMaster did you get? Any installation notes other than clocking it? I'm tired of waiting on my dealer's badly backed up service department which has had my car in twice and has been "unable to replicate."
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