Starter woes 2.0

[The Chairman]

I've reached out, so we'll see. The 5.0/5.2 should be interchangeable - outside of the of bracket on the back of the case, I'm not sure what the difference is between the GT and GT350 starters.

We'll find out.

You probably have checked already, but all the places I checked show the 5.0, 5.2 and 5.2 S/C have a different part number for the starter. That surprised me as nearly all other Fords use the same starter.
I don’t know if they are really that different, but an aftermarket high torque version is likely what you need.

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[honeybadger]

You probably have checked already, but all the places I checked show the 5.0, 5.2 and 5.2 S/C have a different part number for the starter. That surprised me as nearly all other Fords use the same starter.
I don’t know if they are really that different, but an aftermarket high torque version is likely what you need.

This is what I get for typing on my phone. Ha. I should have said the overall form factor and major components are the same. If I had to hazard a guess, there are some minor variations (like the casing on the GT350 version tapping into the motor mount for a 4th point of contact) and likely gear reduction differences for the different compression rations.

We'll see what PowerMaster says

 

[Cobra Jet]

This is what I get for typing on my phone. Ha. I should have said the overall form factor and major components are the same. If I had to hazard a guess, there are some minor variations (like the casing on the GT350 version tapping into the motor mount for a 4th point of contact) and likely gear reduction differences for the different compression rations.

We'll see what PowerMaster says

Couldn’t the other differences for starter part numbers be due to flywheel and trans bell housings if comparing the 5.0 to the 5.2?

 

[meterman]

I’m on my 3rd starter. I might have to look at this options too. It’s getting ridiculous needing a push start at the track.

 

[MikeR397]

Following for a solution to the starter woes. My 17R has just killed its 4th starter over 4 years, 2 of which this year. It’s absolutely due to excess heat subjectivity on track. I’ve got a warranty so it’s free replacements but it is indeed annoying asking for pushes to start it. Fortunately Grattan has a nice hill I can park on and just start it without help, but that doesn’t help when I go to a gas station and accidentally turn the car off like this morning at 5:30am and having to flag a “normie” down to push my two ton car…

 

[dguzzi]

Really looks like movement of the cable is causing the breakage. Maybe your engine moves enough that causes a tug on the cable? Motormount flex? It's just a theory...

 

[The Chairman]

This is what I get for typing on my phone. Ha. I should have said the overall form factor and major components are the same. If I had to hazard a guess, there are some minor variations (like the casing on the GT350 version tapping into the motor mount for a 4th point of contact) and likely gear reduction differences for the different compression rations.

We'll see what PowerMaster says

I just wrapped both my GT350 and GT500 starters with the DEI insulation piece. Easy mod plus one steel band to hold in place.

In hindsight, sorry I didn’t take a pix of the GT500 before the mod while on the lift. When wrapping the GT350 later, I noticed a few differences. On the GT500:
1. The connecting wires were well insulated from the chassis to the starter and where firmly mounted to a bracket to the starter. That kept the wires from moving on the starter side if the engine moved a bit during start or operation.
2. The solenoid had a purpose-built insulator covering it already. It was shaped to match it perfectly. About 1/8” thick as I recall.

They must have known about some of the GT350 issues and did a few corrections on the GT500.
In both cases, it surprised me how close the starter was to the exhaust header….

 

[andyturbo2000]

I damaged my starter motor stalling. They reckon the stress on it destroyed it, maybe pulled the cables out.

 

[jmn444]

I damaged my starter motor stalling. They reckon the stress on it destroyed it, maybe pulled the cables out.

That seems odd. how would that work since the starter only engages the flywheel when you try to start the car?

 

[andyturbo2000]

That seems odd. how would that work since the starter only engages the flywheel when you try to start the car?

Something to do with the shock of stalling ragged the wires clean off

 

[honeybadger]

I just wrapped both my GT350 and GT500 starters with the DEI insulation piece. Easy mod plus one steel band to hold in place.

In hindsight, sorry I didn’t take a pix of the GT500 before the mod while on the lift. When wrapping the GT350 later, I noticed a few differences. On the GT500:
1. The connecting wires were well insulated from the chassis to the starter and where firmly mounted to a bracket to the starter. That kept the wires from moving on the starter side if the engine moved a bit during start or operation.
2. The solenoid had a purpose-built insulator covering it already. It was shaped to match it perfectly. About 1/8” thick as I recall.

They must have known about some of the GT350 issues and did a few corrections on the GT500.
In both cases, it surprised me how close the starter was to the exhaust header….

What type of insulation was used on the starter wire? Proper heat shielding? Or just more wrap?

And for the solenoid heat shield, was it something like this?

 

[honeybadger]

Something to do with the shock of stalling ragged the wires clean off

Ironic I did stall the car by accident in the pits that weekend - but also confused on how that would damage the starter since it's physically disengaged when not running. Hmm

 

[andyturbo2000]

Ironic I did stall the car by accident in the pits that weekend - but also confused on how that would damage the starter since it's physically disengaged when not running. Hmm

I don't think it's anything to do with engagement. The AA said it could be the earth strap ripping off as the engine jumps out of it's skin when stalling. If any of the wires were tight and attached securely to a more stationary part of the engine, when the engine stalls it could easy sever the connection.

 

[Lurker_350]

I happened to see this post, where the starter solenoid was found hanging after a session:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...o-nasa-tt2-racecar.136348/page-6#post-2930196

I didn't keep reading to see if there was a cause identified/solution proposed. Apologies if this has already been linked.

 

[The Chairman]

What type of insulation was used on the starter wire? Proper heat shielding? Or just more wrap?

And for the solenoid heat shield, was it something like this?

The wire had nice, proper shielding something like this:
https://www.designengineering.com/aluminium-plug-wire-sheath/
Covered all the way from the chassis to the connectors.

This is the starter wrap I used on both cars:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GIL1O22?ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details&th=1
The one in your pix looks pretty nice as well.

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