Simple+Cheap Adjustable rear camber solution from Moog (K100411)

[shogun32]

So folks have no doubt seen the rear-camber arm 'lockout' sold by BMR and Steeda. Well, apparently Moog took one look at the problem and asked "how did these guys manage to MISS the glaringly obvious?" and came up with a $60 answer to everyone's royal PITA.

It's a M12x1.75 bolt (admittedly needlessly too long by 1/4") with a flat side ground into it connected to 2 beefy washers with the hole on an eccentric. Simply rotating the bolt rotates the washer between the ears, and you get a lateral movement of up to 10mm.

Now there may be a point to paying $400-500 for a pair of delrin-shod rear camber arms from the usual suspects or the nifty arm design from SPC.
https://spcalignment.com/component/spc/?task=part_description&pid=72370

But with just this bracket your alignment technician will kiss you now that he doesn't have to raise and lower the damn car a zillion times as he fights to locate the stupid bolt in the factory slot.

PS. don't order the part from CarID - their product pickers apparently need remedial math as they can't tell the difference between 411 and 414.

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[KellTrac]

Umm. I dont understand.

This part is identical to what Steeda offers.

It isn't really anything special and honestly, whats the purpose? I am on my 6th S550 and I cannot say I ever really need anything like this, and I align them myself.

I'm confused. Sorry. Road course, bottom the stock setup out inboard and torque. Drag racing, bottom the stock setup out outboard and torque.

 

[shogun32]

Aside from being 1/3 the cost...

So what values of camber do you get with the simplistic slam it to either end of the slot?

 

[kz]

So what values of camber do you get with the simplistic slam it to either end of the slot?

Excellent question. Not sure everyone (or anyone ?) wants -4 degrees of camber in the rear on these cars.

 

[KellTrac]

On an average modded car. You'll get like -0.2X when outboard, mid -2s inboard. All cars vary of course.

 

[silverbullet85]

Umm. I dont understand.

This part is identical to what Steeda offers.

It isn't really anything special and honestly, whats the purpose? I am on my 6th S550 and I cannot say I ever really need anything like this, and I align them myself.

I'm confused. Sorry. Road course, bottom the stock setup out inboard and torque. Drag racing, bottom the stock setup out outboard and torque.

When you change camber you change toe, so unless you like driving with tires that last for only a couple months then I wouldn't do that. I paid 450 a tire for my 555r2s in 345 30 19 I'm not going to chance the wear. Proper way is also going with adjustable toe arms.

I don't like how much negative camber I have I intend to replace the rear upper control arms with adjustable ones with vertical links and adj toe arms also

 

[shogun32]

I intend to replace the rear upper control arms with adjustable ones

you can, but it's just $450+ for the privilege. I'll take $66 over that any day.

 

[KellTrac]

@silverbullet85 - I know. I am well aware of how this stuff works. I would hope you don't think I am saying to adjust it on your own and go? lol.....

To clarify my post. I was developing S550 Suspension before most members on here could even order an S550 car. The BMR Camber lockout kit was my idea and design. Adding an "easier way to adjust camber" really isn't anything special. That would be like me doing my own pool service so my pool guys life is easier? Or buying my lawn guys better leaf blowers?

Spend $XXX to only turn around and pay the EXACT same amount for a 4-wheel alignment? Okay. I guess? Will the tech knock 50% off of your alignment because you bought a cool GADGET? Nah.

At the end of the day, 99.99% of straight line folks pull the arm outboard until it stops and torque down, adjust the rest of the alignment and never do anything alignment related again. Road course folks, on an average height car, throw the adjustment inboard - torque and go. Why do you need to spend money to make the adjustment a little bit easier while adding a layer of complication? lol

 

[KellTrac]

I am genuinely curious. I was asked just last night by a large company if they should offer this exact part. My answer was, no. But if I am convinced there is a legitimate benefit, I am all ears. My business is involved in offering solutions and services to S550 owners and their suspensions.

 

[shogun32]

. But if I am convinced there is a legitimate benefit, I am all ears.

well, when Ford/Steeda/BMR have "recommended camber setting" worksheets and they say eg. 1.3 or 1.7 you can't get those values from slamming it one way or the other. Now maybe this is a matter of user-education - ie. "screw it all, it's a stupid mustang, just slam it to the stops depending if you use your car for drag or track and forgedebboutit".

Fine, then we can all stand out on the alignment rig "being happy" and move on with life. But if slamming it to the stops is perfectly acceptable solution, then why did you design the BMR on-car adjustable upper links?

I think @TeeLew is onto something with just a simple 'plate' with a hole in the center of the slot so you get 5 second adjustement for 3 settings - fully slammed in, out and smack dag in the middle. Whatever camber value results is what you're stuck with.

But for any normal alignment technician, I know for a fact that they will appreciate having something like this if the user wants matched camber side to side. Every guy who has worked on my car has bitched loudly about the stupid-ass Ford system and trying to get something consistent.

 

[kz]

I think @TeeLew is onto something with just a simple 'plate' with a hole in the center of the slot so you get 5 second adjustement for 3 settings - fully slammed in, out and smack dag in the middle. Whatever camber value results is what you're stuck with.

SPC arm has plate like that (has two positions) that works together with other adjustable piece on the arm.

 

[kz]

I am genuinely curious. I was asked just last night by a large company if they should offer this exact part. My answer was, no. But if I am convinced there is a legitimate benefit, I am all ears. My business is involved in offering solutions and services to S550 owners and their suspensions.

Benefit is slightly more accurate adjustment than sliding the inboard mount in the slot, although accessibility of it with the car on the rack is questionable.
Correct me if I am wrong, but there is little than Steeda/BMR arms offer over stock other than adjustability, don't they ?

 

[Orange devil]

So folks have no doubt seen the rear-camber arm 'lockout' sold by BMR and Steeda. Well, apparently Moog took one look at the problem and asked "how did these guys manage to MISS the glaringly obvious?" and came up with a $60 answer to everyone's royal PITA.

It's a M12x1.75 bolt (admittedly needlessly too long by 1/4") with a flat side ground into it connected to 2 beefy washers with the hole on an eccentric. Simply rotating the bolt rotates the washer between the ears, and you get a lateral movement of up to 10mm.

Now there may be a point to paying $400-500 for a pair of delrin-shod rear camber arms from the usual suspects or the nifty arm design from SPC.
https://spcalignment.com/component/spc/?task=part_description&pid=72370

But with just this bracket your alignment technician will kiss you now that he doesn't have to raise and lower the damn car a zillion times as he fights to locate the stupid bolt in the factory slot.

PS. don't order the part from CarID - their product pickers apparently need remedial math as they can't tell the difference between 411 and 414.

Good stuff !! Especially when you start running 2" lowering Springs

 

[kz]

Good stuff !! Especially when you start running 2" lowering Springs

I think piece you're missing (and what Kelltrac is trying to say) that it doesn't do anything other than slide the inboard mount inside the very same subframe hole, just with little more accuracy. Meaning you can exact same maximum and minimum camber unless you change the arm itself.

 

[AAD Performance]

While the initial price point is nice, why not upgrade the whole arm to something more dependable and easier adjusting while you're in there? You're already dealing with the inboard side on this cradle (the most difficult side to work on). Why not increase performance and gain the adjustment you want with adjustable camber arms?

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