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Simple+Cheap Adjustable rear camber solution from Moog (K100411)

kz

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The tabs are available from -9mm to +9mm in .5mm increments.
I get that - but what does that correspond to camber wise in degrees ? (no absolute, degrees of change between -9mm and +9mm given inboard mount is locked somewhere in the middle of the slot - I saw the lock out plate pics on your package pictures - they look solid)
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AAD Performance

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I get that - but what does that correspond to camber wise in degrees ? (no absolute, degrees of change between -9mm and +9mm given inboard mount is locked somewhere in the middle of the slot - I saw the lock out plate pics on your package pictures - they look solid)
It’s roughly a 0.25 degrees per 1mm advance.
The standard lock outs are locked to where the bolt is center in the slot.
 

TeeLew

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https://aadperformance.com/collections/mustang/products/2015-mustang-s550-rear-camber-teailing-arm

Our S550 Components are fairly new (Early 2021 release) how ever our systems are very popular in the LX/LC mopar community
All in all, I think that's a well thought out design. I like the idea of pills which is easily repeatable and can't slip. I also like that the adjustment doesn't rely on threads held in bending. I think the deflection in the actual stock arm would be relatively small considering it's a big lump of forged steel. There is the bushing deflection to consider, but I doubt if the AAD is appreciably different from the SuperPro bushings I have in mine. These arms are probably a tidy little weight loss that could be as much as 10 pounds for the pair (how was that guess?). I don't think the price is bad for the arms. Lord knows I've paid more for less.

I think that the Moog part Shogun32 found is probably worthwhile. Kelltrac has a reasonable point about rear camber, but we're painting ourself in the corner a little bit with the binary approach. I use camber as a tuning tool. If I need to reduce understeer, standing the tire up a 1/4 degree is a good way to do it, because it not only helps balance, but it usually improves the drive off the corner as well by putting more footprint on the ground. We end up trading lateral grip for longitudinal. I'm not a huge fan of eccentric adjusters, but it's better than just a bolt+slot in terms of holding its setting.

Shogun and I have kicked this back and forth a little. I like the idea of an adjustment pill similar to the wishbone slugs the stock car guys use https://www.joesracing.com/product/joes-a-arm-slugs/. If we were to use something like this with the BMR, Steeda or Moog hood piece, the camber adjustment would be very secure, but not necessarily any more secure than the AAD arm and definitely not as sexy.
 

KellTrac

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Those knocking my full in/out approach, are you successfully racing the cars and gaining results, or just looking at things on paper? Bench racing and real racing are different. And naturally, we arent talking tail of the dragon driving as this stuff matters none. Serious question.

As for the adjustment. I'm on my 6th S550 and align them myself. It's very easy to loosen the bolt slightly and move the arm with a long bar and tighten to 85ftlbs. It's definitely a bit easier with an eccentric, but lets face it. Its just a gadget thats not needed. If I have never needed or used it I am confident when I say, it's mostly pointless. Then again I, personally, cannot stand eccentrics. đź‘Ť
 

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Two products I usually hesitate to brag about performance gains are vertical links and camber links. For the average person they dont do much of anything. Noticeable.

That said. From a suspension tuning perspective, it is amazing how much they free up the suspension when you install those two products with a free floating inner sleeve design bushing.

My point here is that. If we are talking parts that actually help performance, a BMR camber lockout kit with your favorite camber arm design, is much more expensive but does provide a nice advantage for a real deal performance car that us used on track/strip.
 

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TeeLew

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Those knocking my full in/out approach, are you successfully racing the cars and gaining results, or just looking at things on paper? Bench racing and real racing are different. And naturally, we arent talking tail of the dragon driving as this stuff matters none. Serious question.
I think I fall in the range of "successfully racing cars and gaining results", but this is just the beginning of an argument from authority. Let's not play that game. There are any number of way to make any type of car fast. We'll all have different tendencies and preferences. There isn't a right or wrong answer. There is an answer that will be the best for any given car, driver, track & conditions combination and it's unlikely that any one answer covers all those bases.
 

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That said. From a suspension tuning perspective, it is amazing how much they free up the suspension when you install those two products with a free floating inner sleeve design bushing.
Along these lines, what are your thoughts on the bottom pin design of the rear shocks. The bonded bushing on the bottom mount pin doesn't seem to make any sense.
 

andrewtac

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Kelly, I've been meaning to ask you what are your thoughts on the fixed bmr arms versus something adjustable? My concern is with the fixed arms and 85 ftlbs holding it in position it might move some as opposed to the adjustable ones with lockouts. I am with you set it and keep it simple. But I'd rather not have to get the car aligned each time I go to the track.
 

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Two products I usually hesitate to brag about performance gains are vertical links and camber links. For the average person they dont do much of anything. Noticeable.
I recently watched your video about the IRS on the S550 still not sure how useful upgrading the camber links for a track car is. I have a very annoying knocking from the back over bumps so I plan to get rid of a lot of the factory stuff in the back but Camber Arms is something I just can't commit to mostly because price. I know that Camber adjustment in the back is an issue but for a track car on track tires I just don't see the point of changing rear camber that much for me is set it and forget. Toe Links on the other hand does looks super useful for alignment purposes.

With that been said and with all your experience with the S550 rear what will be your suggestion for dual purpose street/track car regarding IRS and stuff I need in the back ?
 

Red65

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I think I fall in the range of "successfully racing cars and gaining results", but this is just the beginning of an argument from authority. Let's not play that game. There are any number of way to make any type of car fast. We'll all have different tendencies and preferences. There isn't a right or wrong answer. There is an answer that will be the best for any given car, driver, track & conditions combination and it's unlikely that any one answer covers all those bases.
That’s not an argument from authority though. It’s a matter of people discussing how it works theoretically vs seeing actual results on a track, and as Kelltrac said, those are two completely different things. Claiming that a certain part creates a certain results with absolutely no real-world testing is just a baseless argument, and it’s obvious Kelltrac isn’t someone whose making baseless claims.
 

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kz

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Claiming that a certain part creates a certain results with absolutely no real-world testing is just a baseless argument, and it’s obvious Kelltrac isn’t someone whose making baseless claims.
I am not sure you're reading the right parts correctly. So far claims I've seen here are "improved performance" - that's such a general claim which is closer to marketing than anything else. Using alignment as a tuning tool isn't ground breaking idea exactly, so am not sure what baseless claims you have in mind.
Using two extreme camber settings offered by subframe slot though is little ground breaking to me. Good luck with using it.
 

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You folks are going too far with this extremely simple product.

The factory gives you a slot to use. OE camber link bushings do not slip if torqued to 85ftlbs. (I do 105 on every car I own with new 12.9 bolts). When all is said and done, you use the slot the way its intended or you add a device that saves you a few minutes. Literally. Real simple stuff. Not other advantage than tapping the alignment guy on the shoulder and saying "hey bro I spent money to save you some time"
 

TeeLew

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That’s not an argument from authority though. It’s a matter of people discussing how it works theoretically vs seeing actual results on a track, and as Kelltrac said, those are two completely different things. Claiming that a certain part creates a certain results with absolutely no real-world testing is just a baseless argument, and it’s obvious Kelltrac isn’t someone whose making baseless claims.
I said it was the beginning of such an argument. The first part is questioning the background of the person behind the post. The second part is dismissing the statements made because of the background.

Kell has a general purpose approach, which is probably just fine for a first cut. If used with a tire which compliments the approach, it might even be 'best' for certain applications. Regardless, the justification of, "Because I said so..." is about as baseless as it gets. "Because this is the way I do it." Is only slightly better. An anecdotal approach still leaves a lot of questions unanswered.

And the 'alignment guy' is me. I'm just fine to putz around and get the actual value I want as opposed to some guy at a shop who really doesn't care. Is it really such an ask to come up with a number instead of the position/length of the slot, position of the subframe and static ride height all being ignored for the sake of simplicity?
 

Radiation Joe

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I can't believe this simple thread made it to three pages, but I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. Take it at that value.
Kelly is the only person in this entire thread that provides a reasonable comment. Slamming the camber to full in for track days (assuming toe remains reasonable) makes sense for 99.5% of the people on this forum since not a single one of them is running springs/bars/shocks optimized enough to keep sticky tire patches working.
He also states that using the stock alignment system works well, also. I agree. The upper arms are not loaded to the extent that we have to worry about them moving. Go to 600# front and 400# rear wheel rates with sticky tires (real sticky tires), then you can argue about locking in the upper arms. To be honest, I wouldn't even worry about it then unless I was bottoming over curbs.
Disclaimer: I haven't been to a track in a decade, but the laws of physics haven't changed (so much as I can tell).
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