Returnless Fuel System Options & Threads

[Blackedoutdreams]

Good info. The arcane system looks interesting to me as it looks like they will assemble the kit and probably can help me pick a system for my goals. I’ll probably reach out and see what I need

I have also have the arcane/juggernaut fuel system in my car. If I remember correctly, it's their stage 3 deadhead kit which is return style with factory rails. It's pretty nice kit overall imo

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[LOL WUT]

I have also have the arcane/juggernaut fuel system in my car. If I remember correctly, it's their stage 3 deadhead kit which is return style with factory rails. It's pretty nice kit overall imo

Stage 3 is a return system. If you have a deadhead, it’s stage 1 or 2.

 

[Blackedoutdreams]

Stage 3 is a return system. If you have a deadhead, it’s stage 1 or 2.

My kit came with an external regulator to run a return line. I'm not using the regulator that comes on radium hat.

 

[LOL WUT]

My kit came with an external regulator to run a return line. I'm not using the regulator that comes on radium hat.

A deadhead system doesn’t have a return line. So you do have the stage 3 system .

 

[engineermike]

Is this gen3 or gen2? And stock fuel lines only the pump, injectors, and boost a pump?

Gen3, stock lines, only dw400, 22v bap, and injectors.

Speaking of lines, check out the power that gt500’s are making on e85 deadhead on the stock fuel line. The fuel line is the same diameter as gen3 (not sure about gen2). I’m talking 900+ rwhp and they are less efficient due to low compression. And, using turbos adds another 10% or so efficiency (less fuel required for the power level).

Another issue is tuning. Lund won’t touch e85 boost without return and I’m not confident enough with my tuning to do it unless I can get a Lund 91 boost tune and convert it to e85.

Also correct, most tuners won’t touch e85 on a single pump deadhead system. It’s a shame because a dw400 and bap will support e85 and boost on most sc systems on stock injectors even with mild increases in boost.

 

[Blackedoutdreams]

A deadhead system doesn’t have a return line. So you do have the stage 3 system .

Ahh thanks for that.

 

[tdstuart]

Gen3, stock lines, only dw400, 22v bap, and injectors.

Any info for gen2? I assume less as I don’t have direct injection

 

[WildHorse]

p

Lund won’t touch e85 boost without return

Don't see why not. The Demon 170 uses E85 with a returnless fuel system.

 

[LOL WUT]

p

Don't see why not. The Demon 170 uses E85 with a returnless fuel system.

Because they are stubborn.

However, they have no way to really tell if you have a return system. They tune for the injector size and pressure, not pump size or fuel line size. I could have tossed in a DW400 boosted it and told them I had return system XYZ if I wanted. So long as pressures look good and injector data is correct, they have little way of knowing if your system is a return or not.

 

[engineermike]

Any info for gen2? I assume less as I don’t have direct injection

The lift pump and feed line has to supply all the fuel in either case. Both need injector upgrades, though the gen2 obviously needs bigger port injectors..

 

[WildHorse]

Because they are stubborn.

Ahhhh ... one of those " it's my way or the highway " things. Gotcha.

Another thing I found interesting was they keep talking about fuel getting hot.

According to "Study on the Effect of Fuel Temperature on Gasoline Engine Performance and Emissions" by S. Yilmaz and M. Ozener (Energy Conversion and Management, 2016).

The gasoline temps will be around 1/2 engine operating temps by the time it reaches the injector. Assuming the fuel in constantly flowing.

Found another interesting study on fuel tank temps here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...text=For most vehicles, there is,20 and 35 °C.

One of the reason they want return system is for cooler fuel, but I think that's a non-issue for any modern fuel injected vehicle.

A carbed engine running @ 6psi fuel pressure, sure. Here's the reason.

At 6 psi: Gasoline begins to vaporize at around -20°C (-4°F), with a boiling point of approximately 80°C (176°F).
At 60 psi: Gasoline begins to vaporize at around 20°C (68°F), with a boiling point of approximately 150°C (302°F).

Again, a non-issue IMO. But then again I ain't no engineer haha.

 

[Midwestracer]

with a gen 3 DI and 1050x and a 3rd gen gt500 fuel pumps jms BAP ive been bottom 9s@150+
3.0 whipple gt350 fuel line on E85

 

[engineermike]

with a gen 3 DI and 1050x and a 3rd gen gt500 fuel pumps jms BAP ive been bottom 9s@150+
3.0 whipple gt350 fuel line on E85

What pulley are you running?

 

[Midwestracer]

What pulley are you running?

3.0 griptec

 

[engineermike]

Awesome. I’m also running a 3.0 griptec, 6 rib. Gt500 bucket. I kept the stock ps module and modified the bucket Venturi though, plus added a filter. I’m running dual FPDM but no bap. It’s holding 80 psi pressure at max flow and just barely touching 100% duty cycle.

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