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Cobra Jet
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This thrust washer has been a discussion point on here for a while, multiple threads.
Linking this one for future reference too:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/abs-advancetrac-power-steering.162475/#post-3307673
No one seems to know why this washer is sometimes found in an S550 and sometimes not. However it does seem be a common link that trips the abs/advancetrac/power steering DTC.
Here’s my thought on it:
If the car was assembled at the factory with the thrust washer and down the road it deteriorates and breaks - we all know it trips the code. My guess is that the code is tripped because of the interference now caused by the broken thrust washer bits (or totally missing thrust washer) that used to make a complete “connection” which is now void, which *might* have caused a slippage message relayed back to the PCM which throws the code. Since the washer is now broken or missing, any time there would be torque load the PCM is getting that slippage code because it was used to having that washer in the now void.
For a vehicle that may have been assembled without the thrust washers, there never was that additional piece to break, which eliminates any possibility of any slippage at time of a breakage of the part. There is also no void created since the thrust washer never existed in the first place - so PCM can’t be tripped as easily with a car that doesn’t have it opposed to one that was built with it.
I don’t know if that above explanation or thought came across very well, but that is the best analysis I can tie back to that makes a little sense.
Linking this one for future reference too:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/abs-advancetrac-power-steering.162475/#post-3307673
No one seems to know why this washer is sometimes found in an S550 and sometimes not. However it does seem be a common link that trips the abs/advancetrac/power steering DTC.
Here’s my thought on it:
If the car was assembled at the factory with the thrust washer and down the road it deteriorates and breaks - we all know it trips the code. My guess is that the code is tripped because of the interference now caused by the broken thrust washer bits (or totally missing thrust washer) that used to make a complete “connection” which is now void, which *might* have caused a slippage message relayed back to the PCM which throws the code. Since the washer is now broken or missing, any time there would be torque load the PCM is getting that slippage code because it was used to having that washer in the now void.
For a vehicle that may have been assembled without the thrust washers, there never was that additional piece to break, which eliminates any possibility of any slippage at time of a breakage of the part. There is also no void created since the thrust washer never existed in the first place - so PCM can’t be tripped as easily with a car that doesn’t have it opposed to one that was built with it.
I don’t know if that above explanation or thought came across very well, but that is the best analysis I can tie back to that makes a little sense.
Cobra Jet
Well-Known Member
@WildHorse
If I read your response correctly, you bought the thrust washers but did not install - and have not had a code pop, is that correct?
If I read your response correctly, you bought the thrust washers but did not install - and have not had a code pop, is that correct?
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NightmareMoon
Well-Known Member
You’re not going to get a code without them, but your nut might back off sooner.
If they get mangled or break, its not clear if that was a result of the nuts first backing off or hubs failing first, but surely mangled thrust washers could mess up the speed sensor ring signal, but also a wobbly hub might do that too.
The parts have changed a little over the years. My newer hubs, nuts, and newer thrust washers have lasted a lot longer than the origional 2015 hubs, nuts and OG thrust washers (which I think were thinner), or the 2016-17 era replacement hubs without thrust washers. I’ll be keeping the thrush washers if I replace any more hubs.
as for the GT350 parts, its possible the knuckle/hub/axle combined tolerances are different. For whatever reason the fordgeneers decided they were not needed.
If they get mangled or break, its not clear if that was a result of the nuts first backing off or hubs failing first, but surely mangled thrust washers could mess up the speed sensor ring signal, but also a wobbly hub might do that too.
The parts have changed a little over the years. My newer hubs, nuts, and newer thrust washers have lasted a lot longer than the origional 2015 hubs, nuts and OG thrust washers (which I think were thinner), or the 2016-17 era replacement hubs without thrust washers. I’ll be keeping the thrush washers if I replace any more hubs.
as for the GT350 parts, its possible the knuckle/hub/axle combined tolerances are different. For whatever reason the fordgeneers decided they were not needed.
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WildHorse
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Correct. No more codes and didn't install it. Just replaced the hub.
I marked the nut and will check it periodically. Also used Red loctite.
Also you do get codes. Torque management something. Can't remember exactly.
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17MagMetal
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I should take a look at mine, I think I just cleaned and used a fresh axle nut/thrust washer torqued to 250ft/lb and a good nudge lol.
what torque spec did you go with? It seems like everyone’s got an opinion on it because there’s 5 different official specs.
17MagMetal
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I have so many spherical bearings on the rear end now that I haven’t cleaned or greased I can’t even tell what’s popping and clicking anymore
It was installed approx 1.5yrs/12k mi ago and holding together so I’m happy. It’s also got an ebay wheel hub and eibach extended studs and spacer on that corner so I’ve got plenty of stuff waiting to go wrong back there.
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WildHorse
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So went a 125 mile tear today.
Heavy acceleration, heavy braking, heavy cornering.
~ axle nut didn't move one bit.
Heavy acceleration, heavy braking, heavy cornering.
~ axle nut didn't move one bit.
17MagMetal
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Sah-weet.
No codes/clicking without washer still?!
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Cobra Jet
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This is why in my post a few up from here - I’m thinking a S550 with them trips the code once they break or slip. The PCM doesn’t REALLY know they exist or not, but once that slip is detected a message is relayed back to PCM as if there is a real issue which requires diagnosis. The PCM settles back to baseline after the code is reset either once new thrust washers are installed (or never installed again).
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17MagMetal
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Holy shit this thread jinxed me.
I have a 1yr old axle nut, revised thrust washer, and an ebay (go detroit axle woo) wheel hub and I got that familiar clunk while changing directions today.
Going to torque axle nut when I get the free time. It’s the drivers side. Original torque was 250ft/lb.
MrMike
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This thread makes me think no washer is better than a damaged washer. Interesting. In the video of installing the GT350 half shafts, Ford Performance does not use a thrust washer with the standard GT knuckle.
I've read some other threads on it where it seemed like someone traced their wheel speed issue to it, but that didn't quite add up to me. Forscan logs of the 4 speed sensors plus VSS would've been interesting to see.
I've read some other threads on it where it seemed like someone traced their wheel speed issue to it, but that didn't quite add up to me. Forscan logs of the 4 speed sensors plus VSS would've been interesting to see.
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