Questioning Gen 2 voodoo reliability

[NPTR]

It's simple. It's the same engine. It's not like there was a major design change, but instead, a new block was used to share production with the GT500. Other differences were accomplished, but that was mostly to share commonality with the GT350R.

The only thing that I can point at and say there is a real difference was (I believe) the pistons and rings.

The reason I say that it's the same engine, is because Ford doesn't differentiate between engines. They don't call it a gen 1 or a gen 2 engine.

So this is an argument of semantics then, not reality. If it’s a different block, with refreshed parts, it’s not the same. Same means same, not similar with slight differences. My opinion is, who cares what ford says or acknowledges - if the engine was changed, albeit subtly, it’s different.

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[young at heart]

So this is an argument of semantics then, not reality. If it’s a different block, with refreshed parts, it’s not the same. Same means same, not similar with slight differences. My opinion is, who cares what ford says or acknowledges - if the engine was changed, albeit subtly, it’s different.

So, gotta ask: a new, different block is a slight difference?

 

[svttim]

So, gotta ask: a new, different block is a slight difference?

And heads

 

[Shanksfornothin]

I wonder why the pump gears weren’t upgraded since a lot of people here say they are prone to getting shredded to pieces.

to that, I assume they’re using the same oil pump gears in the GT500? I don’t hear those owners crying about them.

and I’m hearing MOST of the 350 failures are coming from track days or people that track them. Personally I don’t care what any manufacturer says I don’t think they make any care truly “ready for the track”. I think it’s more marketing than anything else. Which is exactly what they got sued over if I remember correctly.

 

[svttim]

I wonder why the pump gears weren’t upgraded since a lot of people here say they are prone to getting shredded to pieces.

to that, I assume they’re using the same oil pump gears in the GT500? I don’t hear those owners crying about them.

and I’m hearing MOST of the 350 failures are coming from track days or people that track them. Personally I don’t care what any manufacturer says I don’t think they make any care truly “ready for the track”. I think it’s more marketing than anything else. Which is exactly what they got sued over if I remember correctly.

They did upgrade the gears. But not forged

 

[Tomster]

So, gotta ask: a new, different block is a slight difference?

Yes, they did that so that it could be used in the GT500 so that the plant isn't forging two different blocks that are essentially the same except the depth of the bolts for the heads. So yea, same bore, same same.

 

[Shanksfornothin]

Also can someone explain to me how the GT500 is soooo much more reliable. I’m seeing 100k plus miles GT350’s for sale and it feels a bit overblown on how much a ticking time bomb it is if it’s not beat to death at a track
I understand flat plane vs cross plane and vibrations but surely if the parts are mostly the same I’d think they’d both be built like a tank but maybe that’s my ignorance showing.

please educate me!

 

[MAGS1]

Also can someone explain to me how the GT500 is soooo much more reliable. I’m seeing 100k plus miles GT350’s for sale and it feels a bit overblown on how much a ticking time bomb it is if it’s not beat to death at a track
I understand flat plane vs cross plane and vibrations but surely if the parts are mostly the same I’d think they’d both be built like a tank but maybe that’s my ignorance showing.

please educate me!

The FPC that Ford used is not like a traditional FPC. The crank pattern is UDUD instead of the traditional UDDU found in FPC’s made by Ferrari and the like. So, Ford had to add more counterweights to balance the crank. So, you’re getting more than the typical secondary vibrations that a typical FPC produce. That’s why you will hear some folks say that the Voodoo will eventually shake itself to death.

The Predator used in the GT500 is a cross plane crank, same as the Coyote and most other American muscle (save for the FPC in the C8 Vette Z06). So, the Predator doesn’t have the vibration issues the Voodoo does.

There’s some good threads here and good articles on the interwebs that can really get into all the nitty gritty of the Voodoo (well beyond my knowledge) but that’s the gist of it.

 

[NPTR]

So, gotta ask: a new, different block is a slight difference?

We’re on the same page - I’m simply proving a point using even the most generous of interpretations. Regardless of what Ford acknowledges or not, to me, the changes are significant enough to warrant some reasonable designation. Whether you call it Gen 2, a refresh, an update, whatever the **** you wanna call it, it’s different. Some changes for ease to GT500, others for durability / addressing issues. But reasoning aside, it’s different, and different warrants designation.

 

[NPTR]

Regarding the ticking time bomb comment, to address that from a slightly different angle… I think there are just so many variables at play here above and beyond the engine alone making it impossible to paint this car with such a broad, simple brush. It’s a finely tuned, race inspired, more sensitive machine. So many variables at play - warm up / cool down routine, fuel quality, service history, etc - and I think that makes this issue even more complicated. This is not a plug and play car in a more modern sense…not your every day “get in and go” grocery getter, and it needs special attention, special treatment, to perform at its best. I think a lot of people misunderstood that early on and treated it like every other Mustang or sports car…and that’s not what this car needs to stay healthy. Not saying all failures were self inflicted…but I think a good number of them were likely influenced by folks not fully appreciating the above…and that’s not always their fault. Ford didn’t educate folks on this as far as I know - no detailed manual covering everything we’ve come to appreciate here on the special treatment the car requires….I’d venture to guess less than half of 350 owners are on a forum like this, as plugged in as we are…

I also think this car is way more sensitive to modifications than other mustangs, and that goes against the grain for this class of car. Again, not saying that’s always the cause, but so many people tore into these things and upset the fine balance that Ford created, and that doesn’t help.

This is a truly special machine, and there’s loads of evidence out there to make me comfortable with the cars reliability if treated right, cared for, left mostly stock, and well maintained. But like most things in life, special experiences have their nuances…and that’s led to a lot of misunderstanding about that this vehicle really is.

Over time, I think the fog will clear and folks will know the truth about this car - a complicated beast, but an incredible one - worth it, but not plug and play. Yet another thing that makes it special to me.

 

[Shanksfornothin]

Regarding the ticking time bomb comment, to address that from a slightly different angle… I think there are just so many variables at play here above and beyond the engine alone making it impossible to paint this car with such a broad, simple brush. It’s a finely tuned, race inspired, more sensitive machine. So many variables at play - warm up / cool down routine, fuel quality, service history, etc - and I think that makes this issue even more complicated. This is not a plug and play car in a more modern sense…not your every day “get in and go” grocery getter, and it needs special attention, special treatment, to perform at its best. I think a lot of people misunderstood that early on and treated it like every other Mustang or sports car…and that’s not what this car needs to stay healthy. Not saying all failures were self inflicted…but I think a good number of them were likely influenced by folks not fully appreciating the above…and that’s not always their fault. Ford didn’t educate folks on this as far as I know - no detailed manual covering everything we’ve come to appreciate here on the special treatment the car requires….I’d venture to guess less than half of 350 owners are on a forum like this, as plugged in as we are…

I also think this car is way more sensitive to modifications than other mustangs, and that goes against the grain for this class of car. Again, not saying that’s always the cause, but so many people tore into these things and upset the fine balance that Ford created, and that doesn’t help.

This is a truly special machine, and there’s loads of evidence out there to make me comfortable with the cars reliability if treated right, cared for, left mostly stock, and well maintained. But like most things in life, special experiences have their nuances…and that’s led to a lot of misunderstanding about that this vehicle really is.

Over time, I think the fog will clear and folks will know the truth about this car - a complicated beast, but an incredible one - worth it, but not plug and play. Yet another thing that makes it special to me.

I’d be interested in reading more about what you mean by taking care of those nuances.

but it does sound like you think it’s very much not a daily driver car ?

 

[ecoboost321]

I’d be interested in reading more about what you mean by taking care of those nuances.

but it does sound like you think it’s very much not a daily driver car ?

I think it depends on your definition of daily driving. For example, given its 10 quarts of oil would be a bad idea to use it for any trips, less than 10 miles round-trip, as oil would not come up to temperature.

I used to own a 2007, 911 turbo that had a dry sump oil system canister as well as five oil pumps to feed both sides of the engine and both turbos. I believe it had 10+ quarts of oil as well. it took like 15-20 minutes just to get the oil to temperature, and even though it had brought torque curve, and you could short shifted, I never use it as a daily driver for this reason. I did, however, put 75,000 + trouble free miles in 10 years. The Porsche mechanics always told me that they would see problems in cars that were driven short distances or parked along period of time.

 

[IPOGT]

I picked up my 2017 GT350R like two weeks ago and have been daily driving it. I have not gotten the warranty (yet), and the car is still running fine. I may not get the warranty at all, and I suspect that my car will continue to run fine. This leads me to think that the "Gen 1" does not need a warranty, and if internet myth is to trusted, then neither does the "more reliable Gen 2".

Need is different than want though, and so while the car obviously doesn't need a warranty to run, some owners may want the warranty for peace of mind. If that is you, and the GT350 is your dream car and in fact within your budget, then what is $3k-$4k for the warranty?

Or go ahead and get a Mach1, and see if you get out of the car every time thinking:
a. "At least I didn't have to buy an extended warranty!"
or
b. "I wish I got the GT350."

I love the GT350 , but at this point I wouldn’t trade my Mach 1 for one.

 

[IPOGT]

They did upgrade the gears. But not forged

Any conventionally manufactured car raced on a track with any consistency is eventually going to break. Period. That’s just reality.

 

[ice445]

Any conventionally manufactured car raced on a track with any consistency is eventually going to break. Period. That’s just reality.

Absolutely. I doubt that many people are blowing these up when driven primarily on the street, which is what it was designed for. Not that it can't track by any means, but it introduces much faster rates of degradation and finds the weak link.

I know the valve drop thing was an issue for some, but most street driven and enjoyed gt350's have been fine from what I've seen.

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