Pros and Cons: Engine Options?

[Justin]

So, i'm not gonna lie to you guys. I don't know very much about cars, or engines, or tuning them for performance. Not sure why, but recently over the last year or so I've really gotten interested in cars and wanting to learn more. I was talking to my boss today about cars, since he's a fanatic, about what he'd take if he were buying a new car. I'm saving up and plan on buying a new Mustang when they come out. So I explained to him basically what we're expecting the engines to be and asked what he thought would be best performance wise.

I said this is basically what we're looking at:

3.7L V6 Engine
2.4L I4 Turbo
5.0L V8 Engine

I first asked what he thought would be better between the V6 and I4. He immediately chose the turbo. And then went on to even choose the turbo over the V8 engine. His argument, was that you could tune the turbo to output a lot more power, fairly easily, to match whatever the others could output. Also noting the V6/V8 are restricted by the engine, which you can't really change, where you can tune the Turbo engine to output whatever you'd like(though if you go too far it could be detrimental to your engine/car).

I know we have a lot of enthusiast and people with experience on here so I wanted to learn a little more.

So here's what I was wondering:

-Is he basically correct, that the turbo could be tuned to perform just as well as either of the other options?
- What are the general pros and cons between the engines?
- Is the I4 Turbo a better choice than the V6 in every sense? It seems like it if it can easily be tuned to be more powerful than the V6, and get better gas mileage, etc.
- If he was correct, why get a GT?

TL;DR - What are the pros and cons between the engine options, and what would be a good reason to choose one over the others? I want to here from all sides. People who prefer turbo, or those who prefer V6/V8?

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[Shelby1000SuperSnake]

V8 FTW! Love the V8 engine rumble.

 

[SStormtrooPer]

V8 FTW! Love the V8 engine rumble.

Agreed. And you can tune the V8 too, and will get a lot more reliable power out of it.

 

[nametoshowothers]

There r plenty of ways to upgrade the v8 -all proven go to ford racing.com and have a look

The turbo will take a while to get an aftermarket as well it is unproven if it will withstand the additional power

Colleague has very large turbo on Subaru 4banger and needs to run ethanol only, so not practical for daily trips

Also unknown if the 4cyl will have the same performance options as the v8 ie brakes, etc

As well all mods to 4 cyl will cost more than the price delta to just get the v8

 

[Justin]

Agreed. And you can tune the V8 too, and will get a lot more reliable power out of it.

I too like the rumble but his argument was that there was only so much you could do to the V8 tune wise, while you can always add more 'boost' to the turbo? I wonder if anyone on here has an in-depth knowledge of turbo? He kept mentioning adding more "pounds of boost" iirc, and it being relatively simply. Compared to not being able to change much of the engine on the V8, just tune the exhaust/CAM, and other stuff I've probably forgotten.

Not too concerned with timing on what it would take to get the turbo kits, just ideology with this thread.

No comments on the V6 thus far, general consensus that the turbo will be a better option and the V6 is meant to be a base model?

 

[nametoshowothers]

you get high stress power out of the turbo 4 and you get reliable power out of the v8

if you can not afford the V8 or the GT350, than the 4 cyl makes sense and you can upgrade the turbo at some time later in life. But if you can afford the V8, you buy it. V8 is by far more reliable. You will have a very hard time getting reliable power that is daily driver friendly in the 4 cyl that matches the V8 with a mild tune, exhaust etc.

 

[OKCfan]

I too like the rumble but his argument was that there was only so much you could do to the V8 tune wise, while you can always add more 'boost' to the turbo? I wonder if anyone on here has an in-depth knowledge of turbo? He kept mentioning adding more "pounds of boost" iirc, and it being relatively simply. Compared to not being able to change much of the engine on the V8, just tune the exhaust/CAM, and other stuff I've probably forgotten.

Not too concerned with timing on what it would take to get the turbo kits, just ideology with this thread.

No comments on the V6 thus far, general consensus that the turbo will be a better option and the V6 is meant to be a base model?

Dollar for dollar it's easier to add HP/TQ to a turbo engine than a naturally aspirated engine. A simple ECU tune to turn up the boost alone will yield significant HP. For the same dollars (a couple-few hundred dollars) you generally won't get anywhere close to the same HP/TQ gain. And he's right, generally speaking, adding popular aftermarket parts like cold air intake and exhaust usually only results in a few HP gain... they're mostly to get better induction and exhaust sounds. To gain a lot of power with naturally aspirated engine you'd have to look at adding forced induction via a supercharger or turbo.

The downside to turning up the boost on turbos is that it obviously places more stress on the system than the factory specs do. And of course you void your warranty by messing with engine and its software. That's why a lot of people wait until their warranty is up before tuning their engines.

 

[SStormtrooPer]

I too like the rumble but his argument was that there was only so much you could do to the V8 tune wise, while you can always add more 'boost' to the turbo? I wonder if anyone on here has an in-depth knowledge of turbo? He kept mentioning adding more "pounds of boost" iirc, and it being relatively simply. Compared to not being able to change much of the engine on the V8, just tune the exhaust/CAM, and other stuff I've probably forgotten.

Not too concerned with timing on what it would take to get the turbo kits, just ideology with this thread.

No comments on the V6 thus far, general consensus that the turbo will be a better option and the V6 is meant to be a base model?

Does he drive a Civic? You can tune the V8, add exhaust, cams, power adders(supercharger, turbo, or nitrous). You can do plenty to the V8 -- it all depends on how much money you want to spend. And with the V8, you are starting with a lot more to begin with.

In regards to the Turbo 4, once you start eclipsing the HP/TQ numbers V8 will have from the factory, it is going to start getting expensive FAST(in my experiences), and reliability is going to start going down.

At the end of the day, it depends on what you want and what you will use the car for. If you want a ton of power, IMO you are better off starting with the bigger engine. If you don't plan on a ton of mods and are good with 300-400 HP, and want good MPG, the Turbo 4 may be a good choice. It all depends on your end goal, and how much you want to spend.

Me personally, I wouldn't trust someone who is telling you the V8 is maxed out and doesn't have room to build on.

 

[Justin]

Dollar for dollar it's easier to add HP/TQ to a turbo engine than a naturally aspirated engine. A simple ECU tune to turn up the boost alone will yield significant HP. For the same dollars (a couple-few hundred dollars) you generally won't get anywhere close to the same HP/TQ gain. And he's right, generally speaking, adding popular aftermarket parts like cold air intake and exhaust usually only results in a few HP gain... they're mostly to get better induction and exhaust sounds. To gain a lot of power with naturally aspirated engine you'd have to look at adding forced induction via a supercharger or turbo.

The downside to turning up the boost on turbos is that it obviously places more stress on the system than the factory specs do. And of course you void your warranty by messing with engine and its software. That's why a lot of people wait until their warranty is up before tuning their engines.

This sounds a bit more well informed, and along the lines of what he was going for. Though he seemed to have no hesitation or worries when tuning the turbo, but he has a lot of cars and plenty of experience with them.

So it seems like: V8 reliable, safe power, that doesn't void warranty and requires little tuning. I4 Turbo: Does have the capability of surpassing V6/V8 with tuning, but run the risk of damaging the engine.

Another question then: You could just supercharge/turbo charge a V8 as you said, and then it would pretty much be no-contest against the I4? But would introduce the same risk that tuning the I4 would put on your system.

Still curious, if others know of any pros/cons to choosing engines, or if they have a preference and why(even just the way it feels to drive, handles, sounds, performs, etc) I think it'd be fun and interesting to hear.

 

[Justin]

Does he drive a Civic? You can tune the V8, add exhaust, cams, power adders(supercharger, turbo, or nitrous). You can do plenty to the V8 -- it all depends on how much money you want to spend. And with the V8, you are starting with a lot more to begin with.

In regards to the Turbo 4, once you start eclipsing the HP/TQ numbers V8 will have from the factory, it is going to start getting expensive FAST(in my experiences), and reliability is going to start going down.

At the end of the day, it depends on what you want and what you will use the car for. If you want a ton of power, IMO you are better off starting with the bigger engine. If you don't plan on a ton of mods and are good with 300-400 HP, and want good MPG, the Turbo 4 may be a good choice. It all depends on your end goal, and how much you want to spend.

Me personally, I wouldn't trust someone who is telling you the V8 is maxed out and doesn't have room to build on.

He wasn't saying there wasn't any room to build on for the V8, I just asked him a simple question about the engines and what they're expected to produce. I'd say he's a fan of turbo engines, and if the V8 was turbo charged or we had talked about turbo-charging it, then it wouldn't have been a discussion anymore and he would've agreed that yeah, if you can afford a V8 and can turbo it, then do it. I think it became more of a general comparison between naturally aspirated engines vs. turbo engines, and he was on the turbo engine side lol. His main point being you can easily tune a turbo engine to match the outputs of naturally-aspirated engines.

And no, he doesn't drive a civic haha.

 

[redhot91gt]

This sounds a bit more well informed, and along the lines of what he was going for. Though he seemed to have no hesitation or worries when tuning the turbo, but he has a lot of cars and plenty of experience with them.

So it seems like: V8 reliable, safe power, that doesn't void warranty and requires little tuning. I4 Turbo: Does have the capability of surpassing V6/V8 with tuning, but run the risk of damaging the engine.

Another question then: You could just supercharge/turbo charge a V8 as you said, and then it would pretty much be no-contest against the I4? But would introduce the same risk that tuning the I4 would put on your system.

Still curious, if others know of any pros/cons to choosing engines, or if they have a preference and why(even just the way it feels to drive, handles, sounds, performs, etc) I think it'd be fun and interesting to hear.

The question of reliability when pushing the turbo I-4 wont be answered until tuners get the car and push them until they break. Some engines are well over engineered and can handle obscene amounts of power over the factory rating and on the other hand some have a weak point not too far from the factory output.

The I-4 will probably be quite a bit more fuel efficient when you're not flooring it everywhere. I think that will be the biggest benefit of going turbo vs v8.

Also naturally aspirated engines do typically tend to have better throttle response.

 

[Ricky35]

The question of reliability when pushing the turbo I-4 wont be answered until tuners get the car and push them until they break. Some engines are well over engineered and can handle obscene amounts of power over the factory rating and on the other hand some have a weak point not too far from the factory output.

Exactly. Whether a turbo 4 cylinder can take much more boost and produce a lot more power than from the factory really depends on how strong its block and internals are.

Some recent turbo 4 cyl engines renowned for high mod-ability are ones from the WRX STI, Mitsubishi Evo, Dodge SRT4. Those engines could take a ton of aftermarket modding and push out tons more power reliably.

Turbo 4s are even pushing out a ton of power from the factory now. The Mercedes A45 AMG 2.0L single turbo 4 cyl ouputs 355 hp / 332 lb-ft from the factory. :eyebulge:

 

[5388]

A Turbo 4-cylinder engine can make good power and out perform some V8's, that is very true. I actually have a friend that did a simple bolt on turbo kit on his Scion TC and kept up with me (about a half-a-car behind me) in a straight line race up until about 85mph or so while running 10 pounds of boost (pounds per square inch, p.s.i.) on a very good tune. The problem he encountered was that running those types of numbers tends to wear the engine a bit, many people that have done the bolt on kit on TC's rarely got 10k miles out of the engine before they had major problems the internals and even the valve springs. Yes, you can get big numbers from a 4-cyl turbo but the reliability and longevity of the engine are reduced dramatically when raising the pounds of boost, also, as others have said, that depends greatly on the way the engine was designed. There are 4-cyl turbo cars out there that make 600hp to the front wheels that are used as daily drivers BUT they put around $10k dollars into the engines to make them reliable.

Since the V6 topic hasn't been touched much, I'll give it a whirl. On one of the many visits to the drag strip this year, I came across a sight that knocked square on my a$$. There was a 2011 or 12 red V6 Mustang in the pits with 5 or 6 guys working on unbolting this and that and pulling the rear wheels off. They undid the mufflers, pulled those out as well as the x-pipe back piping and bolted on full slicks with a nice set of weld racing rims. One of the guys was in the driver seat tuning the engine with a handheld apparently. They turn it on and the sound was... shocking. They had a CAI, heavy loping aftermarket Cams, long tube headers, and 4.10 gears ( I later found out ). I'm sure they had a different clutch on it to hold the power added to the engine. That little V6 ran a 13.3 at the El Paso Motorplex, compared to my 14.0 and some new 5.0's were running between 13.95 to about 14.4 that night. It was very surprising to see what those standard mods can do in that 6-cyl, and you can always get more with forced induction on top of that.

Like others have mentioned, It depends what kind of power you want to make or what you want to do with the car. I wouldn't trade down from a V8 if I wanted to get another performance car for the track (drag or autocross), but if I wanted a daily driver it would be a hard decision between the V6 and the turbo 4 simply because the V6's have a bit of a howl I don't quite like and the 4 cyl would require more effort to move the car at a brisk pace that i've become accustomed to. That being said the (ex)wife had a 2012 v6 MT that I absolutely loved to drive because it was a lot softer/more comfortable to drive than my car around the city and still had plenty of oomph to move around quickly. As far as the gas milage goes, her car, to move at the same pace mine does (not very fast in the city to be honest), used the same if not more fuel. I would average 18 to 19 mpg in the V6, while in mine it was 20 to 22 depending on traffic conditions. All under city driving, no highway driving. It is also important to note that my car is not stock and had better milage when it was stock under the same driving conditions. Remember, smaller engines need to be wound up more to move relatively the same weight away from the stoplight (not racing, just regular driving). 300 pounds of difference sounds like a lot, but a V8 moves a 3700 pound car with less effort than a 4 cyl can move a 3200-3400 pound car.

In summary, don't get hung up on gas milage too much unless you drive mainly highway miles, in which case, the smaller engine is more efficient. Performance wise, it depends what modifications you do to an engine and how it is built. If you get a mustang to perform, race, and have a good amount of power on tap the V8 is the best bet. If you want to build a car that will put the stock corvettes to shame in a straight line and embarrass the owners for running their mouths, if you have the money and skill, I would recommend the V6 and mod away! If you want a comfortable daily driver that is reliable, it would be hard to choose between the 6 and 4 cyl IF the price is exactly the same.

 

[5388]

One thing I forgot to mention, when you look at two engines that make "the same amount of power" ie a 300hp V6 vs a 300hp turbo 4, you have to look at the dyno sheets and how they make their power. Under a certain rpm range the 4 banger will make a lot less power than its rival V6, but they both peak at 300hp so "they make the same amount of power." In all reality when you put them in a head to head straight line race from a dig, the v6 will most likely jump ahead and in most cases stay ahead (if the two vehicles weigh the same and have the same gear ratios, or close to it.) The area under the horsepower and torque curves on these dyno sheets, tell a different story than "they make the same amount of power." Ask someone that has a 300 or so horsepower V6 (stock) camaro or mustang, if they have raced a stock 300 hp V8 05-10 mustang. The differences in performance can't be told by simply saying it makes XXX amount of horsepower.

 

[Boydstang]

To me, (please no hate mail, lol) I have no interest in even looking at a turbo 4 or V6, because to me, a mustang is a V8 Muscle Car. Just my opinion.

Just like others have said the V8 can be tuned as well, may not get the gas mileage your looking for but why buy a muscle car to save on gas money.

If your looking for a daily driver then yeah, I'd say turbo 4 is the way to go.

Again, Just my crappy opinions, LOL

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