Odd experience on a mountain run.

CorvZ061

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Let me start by saying that I am no professional driver, I know my limitations and trying to learn the cars.

My car is a 2020 PP1 that’s bone stock, went on a mountain run with some friends this morning, they were in a V6 1LE Camaro, a STI, a M4, and a RS3. I was 3rd in line, with the rs3 and m4 behind me. We came across a section of copperhead loop at the beginning with tight hair pin turns, I was going into the right hander at a shower sites than the others, and much slower than my old Focus ST, and was met with a lot of understeer, pushed into oncoming lane a little, inside of my tire was just over double yellow. So I backed down even further, which was holding up the 2 behind me. I played with tire pressure some, I initially had the ps4s’s at 35psi hot, dropped them to 32 and it seemed to help a little, but the car understeers more than I expected.

Was I just trying to overdrive the car? I understand it’s a 3700lb car which doesn’t help, but it was great everywhere else except those real tight technical sections.





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Bluemustang

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The stock Mustang has some understeer from the factory. Some more front camber should help dial that out. There are other ways you can tune the balance but that might be the easiest/cheapest way. Dial in an alignment with -2+ front camber and -1.5 rear might just do the trick.
 
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CorvZ061

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The stock Mustang has some understeer from the factory. Some more front camber should help dial that out. There are other ways you can tune the balance but that might be the easiest/cheapest way. Dial in an alignment with -2+ front camber and -1.5 rear might just do the trick.
Is the car able to get -2* up front without needing camber plates or slotting the front struts? I’ve had to do that before on a friends old S550 that was used heavily for autox.
 

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You will need plates or bolts to hit -2 up front. Front camber isn’t adjustable from the factory.
 

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Is the car able to get -2* up front without needing camber plates or slotting the front struts? I’ve had to do that before on a friends old S550 that was used heavily for autox.
No. You'd need to do one or both. A properly good alignment is one of the more significant things you can do to make best use of your tires.

Somewhat paradoxically, one of best ways to eliminate the understeer in addition to alignment is front spring rate (which also further improves the dynamic alignment). This requires a better front damper.

Feel free to reach out sometime if you are interested in setting up the car :)
 
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CorvZ061

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Well, that's definitely not ideal. lol. I'll start with bolts and see where that gets me.
 

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Try upping your front tire pressure to 34 or so and keep the rear at 30-32.

I drive similar roads and first installed an adjustable rear sway bar to rid the car of understeer. Worked well. These days I have a both front and rear adjustable bar; an overall better solution as I can fine tune over/under steer and reap the laser beam steering benefits of the front bar.
 

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Try upping your front tire pressure to 34 or so and keep the rear at 30-32.

I drive similar roads and first installed an adjustable rear sway bar to rid the car of understeer. Worked well. These days I have a both front and rear adjustable bar; an overall better solution as I can fine tune over/under steer and reap the laser beam steering benefits of the front bar.
Except this will increase understeer further. Use a lower rear pressure to decrease oversteer. And while installing a stiffer rear sway bar would work, I don't think it's ultimately the best way ime tuning mine.

The reason I suggested alignment tuning is that the OP doesn't have change the suspension and it can still have a meaningful impact. Sure, I'd run stiffer springs and dampers as I feel like the car responds well to it, but it doesn't sound like the OP wants to go through all that.
 

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If you're okay with the car's performance everywhere else, tight hairpins will always be an achilles heel of a heavy, front-engined car, no matter what you do. Yes, you could minimize it with a very aggressive alignment, and suspension changes... but your tires would be toast much sooner, and the car would ride like crap the rest of the time. That'd be okay for a track car, but not for a street one. I'd just take it easy on hairpins, and enjoy the car the rest of the time. The only thing I had to do to my Bullitt (also PP1) was install front and rear (Steeda) sub-frame braces, to eliminate (more like minimize, in reality) the wallowing. Now it's pretty much like I expect a 3,850-lb car to behave... while still being adequate for long trip comfort.

You could convert it to a track car, but it'd be a lousy street one. You need to decide what you want out of the car, modify it to achieve that, and learn to live with the compromises :). Good luck.
 
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CorvZ061

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If you're okay with the car's performance everywhere else, tight hairpins will always be an achilles heel of a heavy, front-engined car, no matter what you do. Yes, you could minimize it with a very aggressive alignment, and suspension changes... but your tires would be toast much sooner, and the car would ride like crap the rest of the time. That'd be okay for a track car, but not for a street one. I'd just take it easy on hairpins, and enjoy the car the rest of the time. The only thing I had to do to my Bullitt (also PP1) was install front and rear (Steeda) sub-frame braces, to eliminate (more like minimize, in reality) the wallowing. Now it's pretty much like I expect a 3,850-lb car to behave... while still being adequate for long trip comfort.

You could convert it to a track car, but it'd be a lousy street one. You need to decide what you want out of the car, modify it to achieve that, and learn to live with the compromises :). Good luck.
I’ll likely do bolts and go a little more aggressive. Find the balance between tire wear and minimizing understeer. Overall on the run the tight technical stuffwas the only struggle. The faster sweepers switchback’s etc were all fine, the only car there that pulled away from me out of turns was the M4. My other issue with the car has to do with trans gearing lol. The roads we were on were just slightly too fast for second gear (5500-6000+rpm) but just a little slow for 3rd gear. The lack of torque under 4K was very apparent in several occasions, I know a tune will help with the 4K rpm on-off switch of a power band.
 
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CorvZ061

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Sounds perfect for 2nd gear, with 1500-2000 rpm left to go.
with the 3.73’s I ran out of rpm far too quickly

I’d be on the throttle mid turn and at 7500 by the time the road straightens out requiring a shift to 3rd, then back to second for the next turn.
 

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with the 3.73’s I ran out of rpm far too quickly

I’d be on the throttle mid turn and at 7500 by the time the road straightens out requiring a shift to 3rd, then back to second for the next turn.
Something tells me that if you get the alignment and suspension better sorted, you could maintain enough speed in 3rd to be able to stay in it and not drop so low in the revs.
 

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Something tells me that if you get the alignment and suspension better sorted, you could maintain enough speed in 3rd to be able to stay in it and not drop so low in the revs.
Agreed, and as long as he's over 4000-4500 rpm should still be plenty of power in 3rd gear.
 

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