now, lets talk oil!

[Mr. Happy]

Agreed. The subaru guys use it like its some great oil. I refuse to use it in my daily sti. I noticed a fair amount of the engines dying use it :lol:

Yep, my autox car is a Subaru, and it was my track car until it went to much in to autox to be a good track car. After I switched from Rotella to Motul I stopped losing engines.

In reality it's a fine oil for a lower revving daily driver engine that won't see high temps which is why Subaru guys love it. The guys like me that push the flat 4 engines just use the right oil for the application ;)

Now I still use Rotella in my 7.3 diesel and it does great there. But the redline is only 3,100 so....it doesn't matter :lol:

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[mustang_guy]

Yet, my autox car is a Subaru, and it was my track car until it went to much in to autox to be a good track car. After I switched from Rotella to Motul I stopped losing engines.

In reality it's a fine oil for a lower revving daily driver engine that won't see high temps which is why Subaru guys love it. The guys like me that push the flat 4 engines just use the right oil for the application ;)

Now I still use Rotella in my 7.3 diesel and it does great there. But the redline is only 3,100 so....it doesn't matter :lol:

Almost everyone i know with a subaru sees at a minimum 7000rpm daily. I dont get the big deal with it. I just use pennzoil platinum or pennzoil ultra. I agree its the diesel crowd favorite for a reason. Wish it would stay there. :lol: My race cars get amsoil. I believe you missed my edit on that post about motorcraft. It mentioned it sheers like crazy that i hope you wont be using it.

 

[Mr. Happy]

Almost everyone i know with a subaru sees at a minimum 7000rpm daily. I dont get the big deal with it. I just use pennzoil platinum or pennzoil ultra. I agree its the diesel crowd favorite for a reason. Wish it would stay there. :lol: My race cars get amsoil. I believe you missed my edit on that post about motorcraft. It mentioned it sheers like crazy that i hope you wont be using it.

I likely won't be using motorcraft with Motul offering the 5w-50 now. My current plan after the break in is to run either the Motul 8100 5w-40 or the sport 5w-50. Likely the 40 weight in winter months and 50 weight in the summer and for track days.

I'm thinking about One Lap next year. I might run 300V for that pending on how good the Sport 5w-50 does.

 

[Stuntman]

It's great for diesels ;)

In track environments or in higher revving motors it's not that great. The track crowd very rarely uses it. I used to use it religiously in previous cars, but when I lost two motors in two years I started researching it and it shears down quickly at high temps.

It kind of makes sense since in a diesel application it's usually at lower temps and low RPM, not at 260-280 degrees and 7,500 rpm.

I've seen quite a lot of people use it at the track, including EVOs and S2000s -which are pretty high revving. ;)

I've seen a ton of EJ Subaru failures at the track. They don't seem to be the most durable track engines out there, especially when modified; so i'm not sure if you can say it was solely from engine oil.

Turbos are REALLY hard on oil, especially tracked cars. Both M1 0W40 & Rotella 5W40 stay in the low 13's in UOAs while turbo cars can shear BOTH oils down into the 12s and even high 11s if tracked hard, not cooled down properly, and for long change intervals. In most cases both oils will stay in the low 13's to high 12's (still a 40 weight range) in NA cars.

Yet, my autox car is a Subaru, and it was my track car until it went to much in to autox to be a good track car. After I switched from Rotella to Motul I stopped losing engines.

In reality it's a fine oil for a lower revving daily driver engine that won't see high temps which is why Subaru guys love it. The guys like me that push the flat 4 engines just use the right oil for the application ;)

Now I still use Rotella in my 7.3 diesel and it does great there. But the redline is only 3,100 so....it doesn't matter :lol:

Motul makes great stuff but even the 300V 5W40 sheared down to 12.37 cSt (a 30 weight) in a tracked 330i after 2,600 miles and sheared down to 11.74 cSt in an S2000 after 1,800 miles.

EDIT - Motul 8100 X-Cess 5W40 sheared down to a VERY low 11.61 cSt after 2,500 miles in an S2000.

If there were zero changes in all 3 of your motors (modifications, power, temperature, cooling, etc...) then if you were failing motors on Rotella, you'd probably lose them on M1 0W40 as well. Most people constantly modify their subie engines, which would create a ton of different variables and make it difficult to single out your oil, so i'd be surprised if you had everything the same.

 

[Mr. Happy]

I've seen quite a lot of people use it at the track, including EVOs and S2000s -which are pretty high revving. ;)

I've seen a ton of EJ Subaru failures at the track. They don't seem to be the most durable track engines out there, especially when modified; so i'm not sure if you can say it was solely from engine oil.

Turbos are REALLY hard on oil, especially tracked cars. Both M1 0W40 & Rotella 5W40 stay in the low 13's in UOAs while turbo cars can shear BOTH oils down into the 12s and even high 11s if tracked hard, not cooled down properly, and for long change intervals. In most cases both oils will stay in the low 13's to high 12's (still a 40 weight range) in NA cars.

Motul makes great stuff but even the 300V 5W40 sheared down to 12.37 cSt (a 30 weight) in a tracked 330i after 2,600 miles.

If there were zero changes in all 3 of your motors (modifications, power, temperature, cooling, etc...) then if you were failing motors on Rotella, you'd probably lose them on M1 0W40 as well. Most people constantly modify their subie engines, which would create a ton of different variables and make it difficult to single out your oil, so i'd be surprised if you had everything the same.

Mobil 1 has a poor rep in the Evo and STi community as well. However, the 15w-50 M1 works fine. We do need higher viscosity oil, but still my oil temps never went over 280, which "should" be fine for a synthetic oil. At the time I lost the engines I had a 2.0 that went to 8,400 and a 2.5 that went to 7,500. Both around 400 hp. Previously I had run Castrol and Pennzoil. I switched to Rotella because everyone was saying how great it was. As I said, after two engines I did my own research and said never again.

I ran an oil cooler, and changed the oil before the track day. Pretty empirical in my book. The EJ is fine on track when you set the bearing clearances right and keep feeding it oil. A lot of people don't realize that in long corners you can push all the oil into the outside head and suck the pan dry. I fixed those problems and did 12ish track days before switching to rotella and losing the motors.

For the people you see using it, there's a difference between the track day crowd and the track crowd For a track day with fresh oil and someone who's not going to push hard (other than down the straights) in a car on street tires just about any synthetic will do the job. When you start adding real tires, aero, and balls you figure out pretty quickly that the fluids in the car need to keep up as well.

That being said, if you know people who push and use rotella, then more power to them. I would never recommend it after my experience in anything other than a diesel.

 

[Davey]

Doesn't the oil adjust viscosity with temperature. Isnt this the reason for multi weight oil.

 

[1LEThumper]

She'll Rotella T6 5W40 is a pretty stout oil.

Can't run it with cats.....it will plug a catalytic converter up pretty quickly, other than that..yeah good oil.

 

[dgc333]

That's not true, T6 is actually less likely to plug a cat because of its low ash chemistry that is need to keep the particulate filters in the exhaust of clean desiel engines from plugging up.

T6 even has an API SM service rating for use in gasoline engines.

Dave

 

[Hack]

Doesn't the oil adjust viscosity with temperature. Isnt this the reason for multi weight oil.

Right. 5w 50 is supposed to behave like a 5 when it's cold, and a 50 when hot.

 

[combustor]

Right. 5w 50 is supposed to behave like a 5 when it's cold, and a 50 when hot.

a multigrade oil just doesn't thin out as severely as a straight grade. It still will be thinner the hotter it gets.

 

[xt6wagon]

I've seen a ton of EJ Subaru failures at the track. They don't seem to be the most durable track engines out there, especially when modified; so i'm not sure if you can say it was solely from engine oil.

STi has the issue that in high G sustained cornering it can pump a very large portion of its oil capacity into one head.

More over, I've heard of several that puked shortly after a switch to 5-50 making me suspect the motors are not a fan of it.

 

[Mr. Happy]

STi has the issue that in high G sustained cornering it can pump a very large portion of its oil capacity into one head.

More over, I've heard of several that puked shortly after a switch to 5-50 making me suspect the motors are not a fan of it.

See my posts above about the high g stuff. It's true for sure.

Regarding guys not liking high weight oil, I wouldn't recommend a 50 weight in a car that has OE bearings. The clearances are pretty tight. With aftermarket bearings, or more of a looser setup the 50 weight oils are great.

 

[David.K]

Any thoughts on Royal Purple?

 

[Stuntman]

Right. 5w 50 is supposed to behave like a 5 when it's cold, and a 50 when hot.

Except not all "5W"s are the same viscosity at cold temperatures:

cSt [MENTION=17112]10[/MENTION]0*F:

Pennzoil Ultra 5W30 - 57.5
Mobil 1 HM 5W30 - 69.2
Castrol EDGE OE Professional 5W30 - 71
Shell Rotella T6 5W40 - 87
Mobil 1 5W50 - 104.9
Motorcraft 5W50 - 136


This is a good read: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

 

[bruce0293]

That's because the R-C has a dry-sump ;) -I agree that the accusump for oil starvation or pre-oiling is not necessary.

It's probably better to look at an oil's cSt (Kinematic) viscosity at 40*C & 100*C (104*F & 212*F) rather than the labeled 'weights', since a 0W40 can be thicker than a 10W30 at a 'cold' 40*C.

Motorcraft 5W50 is pretty thick at 136 cSt @40*C & 21 cSt @ 100*C and does not use much Phosphorous or Zinc and is heavy in Boron and some Moly -in similar quantities as Pennzoil Ultra.

Not many oils are heavier when you consider M1 15W50 is 125 cSt @40*C & 18 cSt @ 100*C. BMW V8 S65 & V10 S85 have similar redlines to the Voodoo and are spec'd with an even heavier Castrol TWS 10W60 (160 cSt @ 40*C & 22.7 cSt @ 100*C). Those motors have tight bearing tolerances and are prone to bearing failures and many owners have switched to a lighter M1 0W40 while others don't seem to have a problem, some of which say that they are religious with letting their cars warm up. It will be interesting to see how things play out for the Voodoo.

***With the high strung nature of the Voodoo, it's probably crucial to warm the engine up fully (especially with the Motorcraft 5W50) before beating on it and revving it high. IIRC, the GT350R-C also runs the factory oil so i'm sure its performance is pretty good. If you track your car, I might just stick with the proven Motorcraft and be patient with letting the car warm up.

I always cringe when I see videos of people revving their cars like mad right after a cold start :doh:

Coming from an LS3 Grand Sport, and all the verbiage I had read,,, the general consensus is to NOT hammer the motor until the oil is above 150f.

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